Wyndham Points

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

I would put a warning in a sticky to see this video first before going on a presentation or thinking of buying and especially for the people who just have bought from the developer but have time to rescind.

They are not the only one who is doing this to their loyal customers. There are other timeshare developers too. Timesharing is getting a racket and renting is much cheaper now plus you don't have to worry about the ever increasing maintenance fees either.

The more I read this forum, the more I am cured of buying even a re-sale dirt cheap. The developers sell contracts now that they seem to be able to change to their advantage any time and they always find ways to get more money from you one way or the other. I liked the way it used to be but it wasn't flexible enough for most people.

YouTube - Wyndham Timeshare Owner Tells All

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

This video has appeared on YouTube. Perhaps they have finally pushed owners too far and they really will rise up and hurt them. It's long overdue.

Nice video. I'll bet it's a megarenter. He only points out the 2 features most important to them.

[odaddy Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close odaddy]

Nice video. I'll bet it's a megarenter. He only points out the 2 features most important to them.

I agree, especially when he uses John Doe as the guest instead of Grandma.

[basham Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close basham]

My thought also.

However, there appears to be general condemnation of this restriction among all classes of owners. Have you seen one post that thinks it is a good thing.

Renting in or renting out points gives much flexibility to a Wyndham ownership, I've utilised it, restricticting it deminishes the value of a Wyndham ownership in my eyes.

Like so many of the changes, this one now does't affect me much, however with the rate of changes there will come one that will and make the way I use points worthless.

This change is enought that I will tell every sales weasel there is no point in talking to them until it is reversed. I don't ever do updates but now will and have that 30 second conversation.

[Caius Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Caius]

Hello everyone,
I've not seen posted to this site Deanne Gabel's response to complaints regarding the loss of our right to transfer points between owners, so here it is below. My original email to the board of directors is below, in case anyone had been waiting to complain themselves to have a sample letter to go by. I can't claim to be great with letters, but it's there FWIW...

--------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your email, and your sincere concern regarding your FairShare Plus Membership. It is with great consideration, and our sincere care for all owners, that we implement any changes whatsoever to the FairShare Plus program. Only when it becomes clear that new events within the current business environment which negatively impact the FairShare Plus Trust, do we feel that consideration regarding change is necessary. As we have shared in the past, as stewards of the Trust, it is our responsibility to always ensure that the rules and fees are equitable for all, so that a few owners or external businesses cannot find loopholes to take advantage of club offerings, which negatively impact your membership.

§ The decision to eliminate the transferring of points feature was based on several considerations, most especially, ensuring the security of our owners’ accounts.

§ We have discovered several incidents of fraudulent transactions that have occurred as a result of transferring of points, either by other owners or 3rd party companies.

§ We have received countless complaints from owners regarding their being solicited for the resale and transfer of their FairShare Plus points, as many of these groups represent themselves as a Wyndham company.

§ Additionally, based on our records, during the first 11 months of 2008, less than 3% of our owners have used this feature. There are also several owners who are abusing this feature in connection with their commercial rental businesses, the most volume being an individual who has received 740 transfers into their account this year alone.

§ Based on this data, this feature has been taken advantage of to the average FairShare Plus member’s travel detriment, as the corresponding reservations that this type of point usage represents, are only at the most popular resorts.

§ As we never want to be in the position to negatively impact any FairShare Plus member, The FairShare Plus Board will take into consideration your comments and concerns, and determine whether a limited Points Transfer feature is appropriate.

§ If you used the Points Transfer feature in the past, please consider one of several other options still available, including:

o Worldwide Exchange. You may use your points to deposit a week into your worldwide exchange company. You’ll receive a deposit to use to confirm a full week stay with your exchange company for up to two years from the date of deposit.

o Converting Points to Maintenance Dollars. This option allows you to convert your Regular Use Year points during the first 3 months of your Use Year to maintenance dollars that will be applied to your FairShare Plus fees.

o Points Credit Pool. If you know you will not be able to use some or all of your future year’s Regular Use Year Points, consider depositing your points into the Points Credit Pool. Those points will remain available to you for three years from the date you make the deposit.

o Guest Confirmations. Instead of transferring points to another owner’s account, you can book a reservation for someone else by adding a Guest Confirmation at the time of booking

Deanne Gabel
Senior Vice President
Owner Services
FSP Plan Manager
Wyndham Vacation Ownership
8427 SouthPark Circle
Orlando, FL 32819
(407) 345-6417 phone
(407) 370-6375 fax

Wyndham Vacation Ownership, A Wyndham Worldwide company
Wyndham Worldwide | Hotels and Resorts, Timeshare Resorts, Vacation Rentals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 4:42 PM
To: Keller, Brian; Byrd, Gary; Hernandez, Peter; Gabel, Deanne
Subject: Letter to the VOA board of directors

Dear Ms. Gabel, et al,
Please let me take this opportunity to respond to the recent letter sent to Wyndham owners by Ms. Gabel, in which the loss of the right to transfer points between owners was announced. First, allow me to introduce myself as the owner of a small deed of 154,000 points, which is used for vacations for myself and my family. My mother in law also has a small contract, and we frequently combine our points for stays we would not be able to book otherwise.

I wholeheartedly disapprove of this action taken by the VOA. Despite the specious reasoning for the change given in the letter, you are removing a program feature which has no effect other than positive for owners. Ms. Gabel's assertion that the removal of this feature is something that owners have asked for is simply ludicrous. Combined with the recently increased cost of renting points from Wyndham and the over 500% increase in the cost of guest certificates, it is easy to see the real reason Wyndham has decided to eliminate the rights of deeded owners to transfer their points.

At this point, the degradation of owners' rights over the past several years has me feeling less like an owner and more like a pawn. This is the first time in my ownership that I can honestly say that I would not recommend Wyndham Resorts to others. Where will the devaluation of our ownership stop? Will the owners picketing in front of Bonnett Creek have to spread to other resorts? I implore you to reverse this decision.

Thank you for your time,

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

§ We have received countless complaints from owners regarding their being solicited for the resale and transfer of their FairShare Plus points, as many of these groups represent themselves as a Wyndham company.

Since the same thing happens for them to sell their entire ownership, I guess Wyndham should disallow the transfer of ownerships from one party to another.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

§ Based on this data, this feature has been taken advantage of to the average FairShare Plus member’s travel detriment, as the corresponding reservations that this type of point usage represents, are only at the most popular resorts.

But, it happens most frequently in the last 60-day window. This means that the prime weeks are saved for owners who want to use their points for themselves.

I believe this to be a half truth that gives the wrong impression on whether or not this is good for owners. I think the fact that these reservations are made last minute it is a net positive for the majority of owners.

These people would be more credible if they simply said that these owners are taking advantage of Wyndham because it is Wyndham who must pay for the points discounts and housekeeping fees that these owners are getting by using these transferred points. My guess is that they don't do it because it makes them look greedy, but it will also shine light that they may indeed not be incurring many fees for this type of point usage.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

§ The decision to eliminate the transferring of points feature was based on several considerations, most especially, ensuring the security of our owners’ accounts.

§ We have discovered several incidents of fraudulent transactions that have occurred as a result of transferring of points, either by other owners or 3rd party companies.

Then make it secure. WorldMark found a way to do it. It requires a simple form that must be signed and faxed so they have an audit trail for transfers.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

This last part is particularly bogus---they use the same "authentication" mechanism for all transactions---whether transfers or bookings.

Maybe they should just not allow us to do anything with their points. That would be secure.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I believe the owner of the account that want to transfer points out initiate the call. I don't believe the owner of the account want to receive the points initiate the call.

So it maybe fraud say that someone pay the "poor" owner $5 or less per 1K to rent his/her points (didn't the "poor" owner accept the offer) or not even pay the owner. But it is very clear who is behind in both account.



I agree Brian says, I know there is a lot of complain that the point does not seems right, I got confused once and think it does not count right. I guess the safest way is none can usethese points, Wyndham will assign the vacation rotated based on your point number. Wait, the complain is their system, so we should shut down their computer, and use paper to record all the transaction? Maybe outsource to India to do all the counting.

Jya-Ning

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

What you have is something inherent to any points system - moving the goal posts.

The organization is undoubtedly so large and structured in such a way that the developer will keep a stranglehold on the BOD, so that it will always represent the developers interest and not the individual owner.

That why I always buy at sold out owner-controlled resorts.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Can not believe their standard eMail return has one of the reason is only 3% owner use it, so it decide to remove it. I believe Plantimun VIP owner is now about 2%, what kind of message they try to pass to these owner

I will take their official mail reason as the reason they want to make this change "For security reason", And I am willing to give up all the middle ground. Since the transfer is start with calling VC, give the owner number and account by the person that rent out the point and give the person's name and account that suppose to receive the point, I don't mind if they want to force us add some security question and answer to determine if the person that claim to rent out are legit or not.

Here, I give up 100%.

Jya-Ning

[stasik Member Find all posts View Profile Close stasik]

I guess someone will have to explain this affair to me like I am stupid. Maybe I am. Been following this discussion on the various boards. There's a lot of outrage. Lots of "Owners of the World, Unite" crap. Fortunately I tossed that rhetoric out about twenty years ago when I tossed out the union card. Ultimately, I am still not sure why I should be pissed off as this relates to me and my vacations.

Under the current system, all these people who rent as a business are out there buying up or renting cheap points and then booking choice weeks at resorts to rent out. So they aren't really my friends.

Wyndham is presumably doing the same thing and booking choice weeks to rent. So they aren't my friends either.

Wyndham decides to wipe out their rental competition by banning all points transfers. Seems to be a bit extreme since I might want to rent my points out if I don't need them in a given year. But some folks seem to think that they will restore transfers subject to limits in the future.

So if Wyndham restores transfers with limitations, say two or three, that takes care of my problem. It doesn't take away the threat that Wyndham could do something worse later, but I can't worry about that until it happens. In the meantime, renters who are working for themselves and certainly not helping me in terms of availability just got nuked, leaving Wyndham as the only bad guy out there. Sounds like I could come out ok.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

Under the current system, all these people who rent as a business are out there buying up or renting cheap points and then booking choice weeks at resorts to rent out.

This isn't quite accurate. Most of the folks who rent as a business rely on the VIP discount, which can only be had at most 60 days prior to check-in. The "choice weeks" are genreally long gone by then.

Likewise, Wyndham isn't supposed to be able to get owner inventory until 60 days. They are able to use the inventory they own earlier, as well as any inventory given to them by owners to rent at a commssion.

[basham Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close basham]

Wyndham Motivation

Using the rules as we understand them I'm struggling to see Wyndham's overall motivation in prohibiting points transfers absent a further move to soak up unused untransferred points.

Obviously most of the rule changes have been aimed at restricting the mega
renters business practices and I do see some fairness in that as Wyndham Sales should not be paying for VIP benefits for points that were not purchased as VIP.

Even that viewpoint is probably flawed as likely many of the transferred resale points were originally purchased as VIP points and lost the designation on resale.

As a 'normal" owner I would think if I had unused points I would not be using them to pay my MF at $2.10/K, I think I would let them expire or deposit to RCI, well maybe not, but likely. Also as a normal owner I think I wouldn't want to be entering the rental business and making a reservation and turning it over to extra holidays.

By Wyndham doing this the mega renters rational response , I think, would be to buy more dirt cheap resale points with low MF, assuring their own supply, and continue business as usual.

Meanwhile the normal points owner is disadvantaged and there could be a large pool of unused points out there pending further rules revisions.