Another Little Gripe

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yeah, even the little things are irritating now.

Occupancy.

Say it's 6 and you've got four adults and three little ones that added together wouldn't even make one adult .

& they won't let you do it.

If it was a hotel or motel, we all know what you'd do . . . crowd together.

Or if you owned your own place, occupancy is limited to your ability to stand each other for a week.

Rules
policies
limits
fees
orders
regimentation
inflexibility

[rapmarks Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close rapmarks]

the resort I own in Missouri, occupancy is based on fire codes.

[Icc5 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Icc5]

Fire Codes

Yeah, even the little things are irritating now.

Occupancy.

Say it's 6 and you've got four adults and three little ones that added together wouldn't even make one adult .

& they won't let you do it.

If it was a hotel or motel, we all know what you'd do . . . crowd together.

Or if you owned your own place, occupancy is limited to your ability to stand each other for a week.

Rules
policies
limits
fees
orders
regimentation
inflexibility

Fire Codes, in this case out of RCI's hands. We just went thru this with Worldmark and ran into the same problem. All in all, better safe then sorry.
Bart

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yeah, even the little things are irritating now.

Occupancy.

Say it's 6 and you've got four adults and three little ones that added together wouldn't even make one adult .

& they won't let you do it.

If it was a hotel or motel, we all know what you'd do . . . crowd together.

Or if you owned your own place, occupancy is limited to your ability to stand each other for a week.

Rules
policies
limits
fees
orders
regimentation
inflexibility

fire codes

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yeah, I know it's not an RCI deal. Duh!

What it is is a difference between timesharing and other ways of vacationing.

Frinstance, if you own a vacation home or condo, there is no freakin' fire code.

Ever sleep 4, or more, in a motel room?

How many 1-year-olds can sleep in a Queen size bed?

Funny, the resort that brought this up absolutely will not allow it under any circumstances . . . and they have a fine for it. (So, they do allow it.)

rules
limitations
restrictions

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Posted elsewhere, with reply from a respected member of this forum:

Quote:
Resorts don't set occupancy limits - fire codes/marshals do.

This is true, but many "occupancy four" units do allow a fifth person who is a toddler/infant, and that's sanctioned by the applicable fire marshal. The Disney resorts are one such example.

So, call the resort to see what their policy (er, fire marshal) says, but get the 2BR anyway and be happy.

[Mark @SFX Industry Representative Find all posts View Profile Close Mark @SFX]

Yeah, I know it's not an RCI deal. Duh!

What it is is a difference between timesharing and other ways of vacationing.

Frinstance, if you own a vacation home or condo, there is no freakin' fire code.

Ever sleep 4, or more, in a motel room?

How many 1-year-olds can sleep in a Queen size bed?

Funny, the resort that brought this up absolutely will not allow it under any circumstances . . . and they have a fine for it. (So, they do allow it.)

rules
limitations
restrictions

JLB - The difference is, this is "commercial" transient occupancy property, not private whole ownership. It's a different set of rules; in this case it is "Fire Code".

Thanks,
Mark @sfx
Member Communications

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

JLB - The difference is, this is "commercial" transient occupancy property, not private whole ownership. It's a different set of rules; in this case it is "Fire Code".

Thanks,
Mark @sfx
Member Communications

You're welcome.

said that . . . rules



still irritating regardless of the reason

Oh yeah, you can call me J.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

So sneak in and don't tell them.
Unless you make a big fuss they'll never know.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Since everyone is pinning this on the fire code, I emailed the dastardly fire marshal. He replied asking for my phone #. Ah!, he must be a lawyer, too, not wanting to get pinned down by the written word.

It's after hours, but maybe I'll get an answer tomorrow.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

OK, googling will quickly determine that others previously have been curious about this topic. That said, the following can likely be filed under More Than I Needed to Know.

The simple answer, for those who do not wish to read further, is that everyone who has answered this question here and elsewhere, now and previously, is a little right, a little wrong, and it likely doesn't matter any way.

My day today was set in motion by a lovely phone call from a, no THE, fire marshal, not realizing where he was calling. Nice guy, friendly, jovial, easy to talk to.

First, no, occupancy is not determined by the Fire Code (which, granted, is a generic term grabbed onto by commoners not in the fire protection business), in his words. Maximum occupancy is determined by the Life Safety Code.

At the top, nationally, is the Life Safety Code, specifically, NFPA 101. NFPA stands for National Fire Protection Association. This is something that is revised often and becomes the basis for aspects of fire protection for any entity wishing to adopt it. It is the basis for education and training on fire protection.

I was not able to find a copy I could access without an ID, or open, but you can google it, or check out what appears to be a syllabus on it:

http://web.jjay.cuny.edu/~tflan/docu...esandExits.pdf

As you can see, occupancy limits are determined by type (use) of structures, square footage, exits, etc.

The fire marshal told me that the criteria in the Life Safety Code applicable is that the maximum occupancy of a condo, or timeshare, is 200 sq. ft. per occupant. If it was brought to his jurisdiction's attention that occupancy exceeded that in a specific condominium unit, his jurisdiction could intervene to enforce that standard. But, that is the only circumstance where the fire marshal could interevene.

As to my original intention here, that occupancy limits are a little gripe one can have about timeshare ownership, that is not off-base. The fire marshal said his jurisdiction is over structures with 3 units or more. So, those owning single family dwellings or duplexes for vacation property are the Kings of Their Castles (his words).

Of course, this restriction would apply to vacation condominiums as well as timeshares, but it is a restriction one should consider when deciding on the type of vacation ownership as it is quite common to have numbers of guests at vacation properties (we have had close to 20 at our lake house).

Next in the pecking order, the fire marshal said the licensing authority, may have rules and regulations. Yes, in fact, the State of Florida has statutues, and licensing authority, over timeshares:

Services that require a license - Public lodging

Florida Statutes CHAPTER 718 CONDOMINIUMS

Yes, in fact, they do distinguish between Transient (less than 30 days) and Non-Transient purposes.

As to what constitutes a person, since I could not open anything, I don't know if a baby does or does not, officially. Many answering this question on forums have taken the position that a baby does not, but not is not official. The fire marshal also took this in the same spirit as I, and those, do, that an infant certainly does not create the same space need as an adult, chuckling about how many babies stack up to be one adult, and me mentioning airlines and other ticketed entities that do not charge for a baby in a lap, as long as it does not require a seat.

Now, to the final line. (Hello, anyone still here?)

The entity itself can set whatever limit they want, provided it does not exceed the maximum limits set forth by the licensing authority or the Life Safety Code. So, if a timeshare's association or management company says 6 per unit and defines a baby as a person, and that is less than the licensing agency's or Life Safety Code's maximum for that size and type of unit and structure, so be it. Ceasar has ruled.

In the final analysis, although everyone who has ventured up their opinion about this is a little right, it falls on the timeshare itself to set and enforce the limit as they see fit , given the caveats discussed herein.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

In the final analysis, although everyone who has ventured up their opinion about this is a little right, it falls on the timeshare itself to set and enforce the limit as they see fit , given the caveats discussed herein.

Which is pretty much what I figured, but thanks for your hard work, JLB. (And, yes, I read it all. Although I still hope there won't be a quiz. )

I think it boils down to chriskre's point of "Unless you make a big fuss they'll never know." I'll go further and say they often won't care, because I think part of the reason they have the limits they do is that they don't want to deal with gobs of people in one unit. More people equals more noise and heavier usage of the unit and facilities. They'd rather have a larger group that cleans up after themselves and doesn't hand Grandma's ECV over to the kids for entertainment than a small group that trashes the room, but since you can't look at people and know how they behave in private, they use maximum occupancy rules in hopes of keeping the wear and tear down to a predictable level.

Plus, if grandma's in a different unit, maybe the kids won't spend all day bashing her ECV into the furniture.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

but thanks for your hard work, JLB.

Thanks, in 2nd grade Miss Dennis woulda made a big fuss over work like this, as an example to the class.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Real-life example:

Two years ago we shared Christmas day with local friends, also TS owners, whom I met originally on an Internet timeshare forum.

Spur of the moment, with no malice of forethought, because of low airfares, we ask them to join us in a 2-bedroom timeshare starting in a week.

They did.

Then, the law of unintended consequences began to set in.

First, we invited several couples from here who have winter places there, to the resort for a sunset pot luck. In previous years I had gotten close to the owners at the resort, many of them being from and knowing people where I grew up. I noticed they were giving me/us looks at the Chickee Hut that evening.

Next, the friends staying with us invited their daughter and grand-daughter, living not far away in Florida, to join us, who, because of a birthday of the grand-daughter, invited a young couple and their daughter to join them.

At that point, having lost total control, I become uneasy, it being an old fart resort in Snowbird season. Another similar resort has a sign in the lobby reading Unattended Children Will be Sold Into Slavery. In goog humore, of course, but there is a reason these owners own there instead of Orlando.

Before the end of the week, I read the posted rules, and there were not many that we had not violated . . . max occupancy, no guests after 5:00 PM, no sunset parties, no use of the Chickee Hut for parties without permission, parking violations. I felt lucky that I had not been strung up from the near tree (palm, of course).

So, an example of a prohibited use of a vacation property that one would one likely not think about when buying a timeshare (or condo), that one would not have to think about if it was a vacation house they owned.

[rapmarks Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close rapmarks]

Many people who stay at the timeshare we own in Missouri believe that there is a camera behind the mirror. I am talking people who had an extra person, perhaps a baby, in their room. they received a call from the office with the suggestion of a nearby motel, and were put on notice.