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Wanna be a FL Resident? If your rich, think twice about Floridizing.

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  • Wanna be a FL Resident? If your rich, think twice about Floridizing.

    http://www.floridarealtors.org/NewsA...?p=1&id=306578


    Other states challenge Fla. residency tax claims


    NAPLES – April 7, 2014 – Cold and snow aren’t the only reason hordes of people want to become Florida residents.

    Escalating taxes in other states are driving them to the welcoming arms of the low-tax Sunshine State, too.

    But people who are well off, or only part-time residents, are often shocked to discover that just because they consider themselves Florida residents, their former states disagree.

    And in many cases, these states are going after residents they think should still be paying their taxes. And the states are winning.

    National Basketball Association referee Ken Mauer Jr. discovered that last year when the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled against his claims of Florida residence in 2003 and 2004, after a dispute that lasted more than a decade.

    According to the court, St. Paul native Mauer bought a townhouse in Fort Myers on July 1, 2003. That same day, he obtained a Florida driver’s license and registered to vote in the state. Later that year, he made a declaration of domicile in the state and filed for a homestead exemption. And he asked a Florida-based tax consultant to help him with Florida tax issues.

    But travel logs he kept showed that he was not in Florida for the requisite six months and a day, the court found. The fact that he held on to a 10,600-square-foot home he’d built in Afton, Minn., used a Minnesota bank account, and kept three out of his four cars in the state, were among the signs the court pointed to when it said he didn’t prove he really became a Florida resident.

    Mauer, 58, declined to discuss the specifics of his case on his attorney’s advice, which has cost him thousands in back taxes, interest and legal fees. But he did speak of the emotional toll.

    “It’s been horrible for my wife and me,” he said. “I wouldn’t wish this on anyone.”

    Despite the risk of an audit, or worse, more wealthier people than ever before are trying to establish residency in Florida because of its indisputable tax benefits, Naples wealth manager Soren Christensen said.

    He’s seen double the number of clients looking to become Florida residents than he did last year, all trying to escape rising tax burdens in their home states

    “One of the first questions clients ask us is should they domicile in Florida,” he said. “And frankly, they’d be crazy not to.”

    Florida is undeniably attractive from a tax standpoint. In terms of having a favorable tax climate, it ranks first in the nation for individual income tax; sixth for unemployment insurance tax, 13th for corporate tax; 16th for property tax and 18th for sales tax, according to the Tax Foundation’s 2014 State Business Tax Climate Index.

    Overall, it ranks fifth as the best state to live and do business from a tax standpoint, the foundation found, after Wyoming, South Dakota, Nevada and Alaska.

    Conversely, the foundation found the heaviest tax burdens are generally in northern states, including New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Vermont and Connecticut, and Maryland, as well as some Midwestern ones like Minnesota and Wisconsin.

    That’s led to some high-profile defections, including the well-publicized departure of billionaire philanthropist and Paychex founder Tom Golisano, who moved to Florida from New York in 2009. He now lives in Naples.

    The move saved him $5 million a year in taxes, he wrote at the time in an essay in the Niagara Falls Reporter about why he made the move.

    “I love New York,” he wrote. “But how much should it cost to call New York home?”

    Tax expert Larry Parker, a Naples enrolled agent, said he’s seen many more clients who are seeking advice about how to become a Florida resident without running afoul of their old state’s rules – a process sometimes referred to as “Floridizing.”

    “It will continue to go on as long as northern states try to make up for shortfalls in their budgets from the recession,” he predicted.

    The flight from high-tax states is one reason why Southwest Florida’s population is booming, financial experts say. Collier’s population increased 5.6 percent to 339,642 in 2013 from 2010, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Over the same period, Lee’s went up 6.8 percent to 661,115. By comparison, the population of the nation overall increased just 2.4 percent.

    Minnesotans in particular are relocating to Florida to escape a “very aggressive” tax hike, said David Legis, a vice president and wealth management consultant at USBank in Naples.

    Among other provisions, Minnesota adds a fourth tier income tax rate of 9.85 percent on individuals with more than $150,000 in taxable income, and married joint filers with more than $250,000 of taxable income. It also imposes a state-level gift tax subjecting lifetime gifts of more than $1 million to a flat 10 percent tax.

    To retain high-income taxpayers, Minnesota applies a test of 26 factors, including where fishing and hunting licenses are registered.

    But tests in other states may vary, ranging from the obvious, like where bank statements are mailed, to the obscure, like where safe deposit boxes are kept.

    For those who make the effort, like Jack and Bette Keller, the rewards are worth it.

    The couple, who had been vacationing in the area since 2002, decided a few years ago to make the move permanent.

    So they sold their Pennsylvania heating oil business and bought a place in Fort Myers, where they live seven months of the year.

    And though they still own a home in Pottsville, Pa., they made sure all of their official records, affiliations and other proofs of residency are based here.

    Jack Keller, 70, said that by paying attention to these details, he hasn’t had any trouble with Pennsylvania taxing authorities.

    “It’s saved us thousands in taxes,” he said.

    Copyright © 2014 the Naples Daily News (Naples, Fla.), June Fletcher. Distributed by MCT Information Services.

  • #2
    Thanks Chris. Interesting article


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Pat
    *** My Website ***

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    • #3
      Of course, if they buy an expensive Florida house they find out that the County property tax and cost of insurance may offset their income tax savings. Florida Counties have HUGE budgets.
      RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JLB View Post
        Of course, if they buy an expensive Florida house they find out that the County property tax and cost of insurance may offset their income tax savings. Florida Counties have HUGE budgets.
        and other areas:

        Our auto insurance in Florida is $2364 a year, and if insured in our other state, $1599.

        I happen to have just got off the phone with our other state insurance agent, and Florida being a no fault state makes our auto premiums $200 a year more for 3 vehicles.

        Another complication is where the vehicle is garaged, as Sonwbirds tend to have vehicle garaged in both their states. Then, what policies liability umbrellas will extend to.

        It is a many-twisted issue.
        JLB
        Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick
        Last edited by JLB; 04-08-2014, 11:58 AM.
        RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

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        • #5
          for us , it is a great advantage to be a Florida resident, but auto insurance is higher,homeowners insurance is twice as much, property taxes are less.
          we feel it is the price to pay for living in such a nice climate. we spend 7 to months a year here, but we do keep a small checking account in our other state, though they tell you not o.

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          • #6
            Phew, I'm safe

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't believe anyone considering Florida could ever understand all the ramifications, regardless of who attempts to explain them, beforehand.

              It is a learn-as-you-go thing.

              FWIW, real property tax is not low without the Save Our Homes Act.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeste...ion_in_Florida

              I have seen many, many virtually worthless decrepit undeveloped lots, owned by out-of-state owners, with property taxes higher than that on nearby houses owned by FL residents.
              RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

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              • #8
                Originally posted by GrayFal View Post
                Thanks Chris. Interesting article


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                Was thinking about you when I saw this.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rapmarks View Post
                  for us , it is a great advantage to be a Florida resident, but auto insurance is higher,homeowners insurance is twice as much, property taxes are less.
                  we feel it is the price to pay for living in such a nice climate. we spend 7 to months a year here, but we do keep a small checking account in our other state, though they tell you not o.
                  Many of us self insure and just buy liability insurance.
                  It's getting to the point where it costs $5K to insure on each property against everything or just take your chances.
                  Many of my friends and family who own their homes outright are choosing to self insure for most
                  of their home risks. I'm pretty much self insured on 3 of my properties which are condos.
                  Well I have the main condo insurance but other than that I'm taking my chances.
                  Is it risky? Yeah, but if you live near the water the hurricane insurance is insane.
                  The flood isn't too bad but hurricane is ridiculous and has a huge deductible.
                  Might as well self insure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Living in MA, and knowing what Maine does to people who move to other states, has led me to think about this issue quite a bit.

                    IMHO, we all have the right to declare which State is our state of residence. The various "tests" States use to challenge the assertion of an individual that he or she is a resident of another state shouldn't even be allowed in a court of law. IMHO, a very basic liberty is the right to choose our state of residence. It is fundamental, one of the reasons we kicked King George in the teeth. Now, we have mini-me King Georges having at it again.

                    So, I think my wife and I should be able to purchase a home on Sanibel, declare it our primary residence, register to vote there, and basically act as citizens of the State of Florida while maintaining our home in MA, seeing our physicians in MA, keeping our checking account in the Credit Union in MA (it has a "national" if not a "global" presence via the internet), and maybe keeping a car registered in MA to use when we return to use our home in MA.

                    The Commonwealth of MA would disagree. Anyone remember where the American Revolution started? I do. It is a stone's throw away from where I live and where I work.

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                    • #11
                      good points.
                      I heard New York look at where you keep your family photos!
                      I kept my stockbroker when I left Illinois which was 12years ago and my checking account
                      I have a safety deposit box in WI and FL,because my children could get to WI one easier if something happened.
                      and I have seriously though of being self insured

                      I have a lot in central florida, when it was worth a lot, is was assessed at that, but when the market tanked, the assessment was lowered. Not so in WI or IL. I was told they would reassess it after I sold it.

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                      • #12
                        Speaking of New York, and lots, when we were househunting, one of the best deals we found was a nice little house on a corner lot, with a canal out back. But, the canal only came to the next lot over on the block, so that lot and the lot at the end of the block next to the corner lot had canal access. So we needed a lot on either side of the lot with the house on it to have the canal. Both overgrown, vacant lots had higher property taxes than the house we were looking at after homesteading. Both of the vacant junk lots were around $2000 a year.

                        As far as insurance, out major concern is, exactly, liability. We have insurance on our Florida house so that our liability umbrella will extend to it. I have not thought to ask if it would extend if we have liability only.

                        Hurricane is about 80% of our premium, and flood insurance is just about that amount on top of that.

                        Ironically, the $3000 a year in timeshare maintenance fees would take care of all of that, if we did not have them.



                        Property values vary greatly in different areas of Florida, with inland being quite low. Our northern acquaintances finally followed us, and bought a place in Sebring this Winter for $19000.

                        No, it does not say "Coleman" on the side of it.



                        Then they came back north and put their lake place for sale for $80,000 less than they paid for it 9 years ago. They also have a building lot in the gated golf community up here, which was their retirement house plan two plans ago. They, too, have unwanted, unneeded-now, timeshare fees, and are trying to unload. They got their Mexican stuff unloaded sitting at the pool at that resort, but are stuck with their American stuff.

                        Yeah, met them on a certain other timeshare site, and hosted them at the lake.

                        RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BWolf View Post
                          So, I think my wife and I should be able to purchase a home on Sanibel, declare it our primary residence, register to vote there, and basically act as citizens of the State of Florida while maintaining our home in MA, seeing our physicians in MA, keeping our checking account in the Credit Union in MA (it has a "national" if not a "global" presence via the internet), and maybe keeping a car registered in MA to use when we return to use our home in MA.

                          .
                          So I wonder how they view these things if you decide to go completely "green" and just get online statements.
                          Are they going to check your IP address where you log in?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rapmarks View Post

                            I have a lot in central florida, when it was worth a lot, is was assessed at that, but when the market tanked, the assessment was lowered. Not so in WI or IL. I was told they would reassess it after I sold it.
                            I have a few lots in SW Florida too.
                            The taxes at the height of the market were 2k. Now they are down to $200.
                            They took a few years to adjust downward but they finally did.
                            Unfortunately I didn't sell them when I could have.
                            Sort of like someone around here who can't seem to get rid of his TS's either.
                            Maybe you can help him rapmarks as I understand you were able to divest of your unwanted TSs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Flood and hurricane are 80% of our insurance. Our agent is checking to see if we can take hurricane off. If we can, we can l still have our liability umbrella extend to it.

                              We could absorb a few thousand dollars of hurricane loss, but not a million dollar lawsuit.
                              RCI Member Since 24-Aug-1989/150-plus Exchanges***THE TIMESHARE GRIM REAPER~~~Exchanging/Searching/SW Florida/MO/AR/IA/Consumer Advocacy/Estate Planning/Sports/Boating/Fishing/Golf/Lake-living/Retirement****Sometimes ya just gotta be a dick

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