OH, OH! More OL Insults OY!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

PS:

I have been composing, and doing errands, all the while the recent posts have been made. Had they been there the last I looked, I would not have made my last post.

As I know I am generally held in disfavor by those who call the shots OY, I sense that what I say tends to be held in lesser regard by them because it was me that said it. I now see that I said very similar stuff to what others are saying, and if I detracted from it because I also said it, I apologize to you.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Hey Jim,

You seem to be at peace with Orange Lake. That's good. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

[Steve Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve]

I appreciate the more recent posts on this thread. It helps to hear constructive suggestions rather than just criticism.

The whole situation with Orange Lake is a difficult one. As was mentioned, I didn't see the latest TUG thread until after all of the responses had been posted to the original rude post. At that point, closing the thread seemed like the best solution.

One thing that people need to realize is that the TUG leadership doesn't always agree on everything. My hands are somewhat tied, and it has been that way for years, and it is very frustrating. So, we each do the best we can. It would be nice if people could be a little bit more understanding and not jump all over us every time something happens. There are very strong egos involved on all sides of these issues...and trying to keep the peace both on the BBS...and behind the scenes...is not a particularly fun job.

Steve

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I appreciate the more recent posts on this thread. It helps to hear constructive suggestions rather than just criticism.
- - - - -


Sometimes what appears to be just more ragging is there to encourage improvement, rather than ragging for ragging's sake. Perhaps when one feels targeted, they take it to be pure criticism with no redeeming value. That works both ways, and the ill will escalates.

- - - - - -

The whole situation with Orange Lake is a difficult one. As was mentioned, I didn't see the latest TUG thread until after all of the responses had been posted to the original rude post. At that point, closing the thread seemed like the best solution.

One thing that people need to realize is that the TUG leadership doesn't always agree on everything. My hands are somewhat tied, and it has been that way for years, and it is very frustrating. So, we each do the best we can.
- - - - - -


In different words, that is exactly what I have already said, that you can only do what has always been done. When you always do what you have always done you will always get what you've always gotten.

Do you really want the Ziggy/GinGin/SWSRN fiasco, the brouhaha of 2004 with loyal users jumping ship, and the obvious frustration many are voicing to just keep being repeated?

Those posting their thoughts here are the same folks trying to post OY. They come here in much the same spirit as those who left OY in 2004, because they feel disrespected OY, that there is no one there who cares to listen.

There would be no Over Here if it weren't for the fact that those OY would not listen two years ago. I did not make the move with the others. I held out the hope that the problem OY would be seen. This is the first inkling that it might, that someone might really understand.

FWIW, I have recently had dealings with the next generation of ownership OY and if that is any indication of what is in store for years to come, it will be more of the same.

JMHO.
- - - - -


It would be nice if people could be a little bit more understanding and not jump all over us every time something happens. There are very strong egos involved on all sides of these issues...and trying to keep the peace both on the BBS...and behind the scenes...is not a particularly fun job.

Steve

- - - - - -

Why not? Bigfrank is always smiling and happy!

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I have the thought that the discussions here are my equivalent to the protest songs of the 60's, or more recently, The Dixie Chicks, speaking to, or about, The Establishment, when The Establishment did not tolerate dissent.

Even some of the catch phrases are appropriate:

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?

How many times must a cannon ball fly before they are forever banned?

How many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?

Of course, as we all know, the answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

I appreciate the more recent posts on this thread. It helps to hear constructive suggestions rather than just criticism.

Steve, I fully support that viewpoint, but there is a perception (possibly unfounded, but a perception nontheless) that supporters of OL can say what they like, but any criticism will be dumped on very quickly and very hard.

One thing that people need to realize is that the TUG leadership doesn't always agree on everything.

Steve

I would actually take that statement one step further and say TUG leadership doesn't always lead. When the database was being moved to the new server many questions were asked by the review reps and few were answered. We were left to make our own decisions on what format things should take.
(Note to admins. If you think this is taking TUG knocking too far please feel free to delete)

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Very Dylanistic, Jim. And the times are always a changin'.

I have the thought that the discussions here are my equivalent to the protest songs of the 60's, or more recently, The Dixie Chicks, speaking to, or about, The Establishment, when The Establishment did not tolerate dissent.

Even some of the catch phrases are appropriate:

You are either part of the problem or part of the solution.

How many times can a man turn his head and pretend that he just doesn't see?

How many times must a cannon ball fly before they are forever banned?

How many ears must one man have before he can hear people cry?

Of course, as we all know, the answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I have always had a much higher regard for boards like TS4MS and TimeshareTalk which do not play favorites or overmoderate (read censor).
It is not just on OL issues that some viewpoints and their advocates tend to be favored over others on a certain other board. IMHO being more evenhanded and open would enhance their board.

[NativeCracker Member Find all posts View Profile Close NativeCracker]

I generally don't say a lot about the situation OY with SWSRN, but I must confess that she has insulted me on numerous occasions within OL threads with her personal attacks, belittling tone, and arrogant attitude. Her assaults have always been in response to me voicing what I consider to be thoughtful, fact-based opinions about Orange Lake in the course of reasonable dialogue. I try to take the high road with my replies - even though it's often very difficult in the face of her incredible rudeness.

I am relieved to say that I've never been chastised by the moderators or administrators for any of my posts - although I was probably close on a couple of occasions (when her insults went so far as to intimate that I'm a bad mother, I was a little less diplomatic than usual). I will say, however, that I've seen others chastised or suspended for saying even less than I have, and I truly don't think I've ever posted anything sanctionable. I have no way of knowing whether SWSRN has ever been suspended, but I've never noticed any gaps in her postings. She has certainly stepped over the line (WAY over the line) many, many times.

I personally think that the whole problem is the perception that she goes unpunished for incredible rudeness and unkindness, while those who try to defend themselves, or even just offer counterviews to her Utopian propaganda, are penalized. I know moderating someone as difficult as she is must be challenging, but the prevailing attitude appears to be that she can't be changed, so everyone else must accept/ignore her or they will pay the consequences. It just seems like there ought to be a better solution.

[lawgs Member Find all posts View Profile Close lawgs]

to whom it may concern

in response to steve's response to my post in this current thread

the post in which you detached a "partial" from my total "statement", was not "referring" to you ....but rather to a poster OY who seems to "slip" by with posts that negates others with impunity, since said poster would never go against the TUG guidelines/policies and thus can see no 'reflection' as to being a cause of upset OY ( the experiences of said poster are just that ......personal experiences or observations , as such "relative" and NOT absolutes to which others should have to acquiesce )

the first part of my post was partly due frustration with the "scatter gun" way in which some situations are handled OY, in particular, to state that most posts concerning said resort are "petty", seemingly pointing a finger at all posters OY who ever had concerns about OLCC

i apologize if you felt the "reflection" comment was about you, it was NOT

but, still think that everyone should not "blanketed" with the statements made when you closed the thread.....ie petty and unpleasant posts, that could be interpreted as meaning anyone who posts or has posted about concerns about OLCC is encompasssed

perhaps, you should just said since the thread was now violating TUG policies, that you were closing it

in the end, it is your forum OY and you have the power to do anything you want ( we know we are not suppost to question actions of moderators OY as per TUG guidelines ) but that does not preclude anyone from espousing an opinion or interpretation or observation about actions taken there -- OH

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I find it interesting that we never find Vickie posting on this board. I believe she is registered. Could it be that she knows if she tried her normal schtick that she would be handled appropriately?

I hope she lurks here occasionally. She would learn about how she is perceived by many people. My one word descriptor for her is "arrogant." I don't believe she is mean spirited. She just has a superiority complex.

I think she really does care about Orange Lake. She probably has a couple of friends who are managers there who provide her updates on what is happening at the resort. It makes her feel special and she posts that info OY to bolster her own self importance.

Vickie, if you are reading this thread, you can probably create peace over yonder and with other members of this board if you lighten up a little about Orange Lake. It's a nice resort, but it isn't perfect and that is all others are expressing their opinions about. The more you demean their opinions, the more they want to stick to them and point them out aggressively. If there are bad feelings about Orange Lake, your posting style forces those who don't agree with you to amplify their negative views just to counterbalance your pollyanna view of the resort.

And this is coming from a person who is an owner and lover of Orange Lake. For a long time, I was taking your side. Now, your arrogance has crossed the line once too often.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Maybe she doesn't post here because we have more sophisticated tools. Call this the beginning of a conspiracy theory, but perhaps this poster is just a second (or third or 4th) ID of a person posting here and there or maybe it's really the multi-banned obsessed defender of OL, or perhaps even a moderator or administrator OY doing some undercover nastiness (anyone remember "Chicken Little" or further back "Caldreamin"). The last suggestion would certainly explain the continuing problem and perhaps even a conspiracy.

[NativeCracker Member Find all posts View Profile Close NativeCracker]

I find it interesting that we never find Vickie posting on this board. I believe she is registered. Could it be that she knows if she tried her normal schtick that she would be handled appropriately?

I hope she lurks here occasionally. She would learn about how she is perceived by many people. My one word descriptor for her is "arrogant." I don't believe she is mean spirited. She just has a superiority complex.

I think she really does care about Orange Lake. She probably has a couple of friends who are managers there who provide her updates on what is happening at the resort. It makes her feel special and she posts that info OY to bolster her own self importance.

Vickie, if you are reading this thread, you can probably create peace over yonder and with other members of this board if you lighten up a little about Orange Lake. It's a nice resort, but it isn't perfect and that is all others are expressing their opinions about. The more you demean their opinions, the more they want to stick to them and point them out aggressively. If there are bad feelings about Orange Lake, your posting style forces those who don't agree with you to amplify their negative views just to counterbalance your pollyanna view of the resort.

And this is coming from a person who is an owner and lover of Orange Lake. For a long time, I was taking your side. Now, your arrogance has crossed the line once too often.

Boy! Did you ever hit the nail on the head! Sometimes I post a counter-opinion to hers, not to stir the pot, but simply because I honestly feel that the innocent poster of any OL question isn't getting an accurate answer when seeing it only through her Orange[Lake]-colored glasses. If she would be less agressive, and especially less defensive (particularly with her counterattacks on anyone who doesn't worship all things Orange Lake), all of the dissention would just go away. Wouldn't that be lovely?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

PS: Here's how simple this issue is for me.

A virtual handshake and an apology and I can move on down the road.

Let's get back to neutral and moderate on an even keel, and this is all over for me.

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

I have to ask this and pullleezze, don't jump me for asking, as I tried to research the roots of this, but.....................

I have read whatever I could find on this OL situation on TUG and here, however, I can't find some of the prior history related to the how/why/why of how this started. Threads get locked, deleted, moved or archived. Is there a thread of some sort of chronolgy or synopsis ?

Yes, I sort of know that it reeks of favoritism, contentiousness, censorship, spy v.s. spy, maybe a kickback or two, but in 100 words or less, can someone capsulize this epic saga (if that's possible?) .

Thank you.
Signed,
Wondering in Beantown