OH, OH! More OL Insults OY!

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Why not Dialogue?

I appreciate the more recent posts on this thread. It helps to hear constructive suggestions rather than just criticism.

The whole situation with Orange Lake is a difficult one. As was mentioned, I didn't see the latest TUG thread until after all of the responses had been posted to the original rude post. At that point, closing the thread seemed like the best solution.

One thing that people need to realize is that the TUG leadership doesn't always agree on everything. My hands are somewhat tied, and it has been that way for years, and it is very frustrating. So, we each do the best we can. It would be nice if people could be a little bit more understanding and not jump all over us every time something happens. There are very strong egos involved on all sides of these issues...and trying to keep the peace both on the BBS...and behind the scenes...is not a particularly fun job.

Steve

Hi Steve,

I would like to have you take this as constructive suggestions rather than just criticism.

I have been cut off with a take it and leave it attitude in "PMs and Emails" from the TUG leadership (Not from you).

Why not have some dialogue behind closed doors?

"This is the way it is and I will not talk to you about it again" attitude is not going to make one feel very welcome on TUG.

If anything it will cause the membership to be more aggressive, fight back, stop posting, drop out and/or stop reading the TUG Threads.

Walt

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

PS: Here's how simple this issue is for me.

A virtual handshake and an apology and I can move on down the road.

Let's get back to neutral and moderate on an even keel, and this is all over for me.

I can unequivocally state that this is what Jim is all about. I wrongly made an accusation about Jim a while ago. I apologized, he accepted and it never came up again. Funny thing is, I don't even recall what the subject was about.

[WanderLust Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close WanderLust]

I find this to be a most interesting and educational read. I do have a question and ask it only for "context purposes." I see references to "SWSRN." I have no idea who, what, etc is. Are the letters a name of individual posting, an acronym, or group of posters?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I find this to be a most interesting and educational read. I do have a question and ask it only for "context purposes." I see references to "SWSRN." I have no idea who, what, etc is. Are the letters a name of individual posting, an acronym, or group of posters?

She Who Shall Remain Nameless.

[Steve Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve]

Lawgs:

My apologies. I misunderstood who you were referring to. Thank you for clarifying this for me. I also didn't intend for anyone to feel insulted with my post when I closed the Orange Lake thread. Perhaps I need to be more careful with my choice of wording.

TonyG:

Vickie is not Chicken Little nor CalDreamin nor Katmandu/Ziggy/GinGin. That's an interesting theory, but I can tell you with absolute certainly that she is none of those people.

Jim:

I don't think [the sender] would appreciate you posting the contents of his emails to you here on Forums. Indeed, he has been quite upset when you have done similar things in the past. You must feel the need to justify your statements...and you must think posting [the sender's] communications with you is going to help...but it's not polite to post private emails on a public forum without the other person's permission. You seem to want [the sender] to apologize so you can move on. Perhaps you might consider being the big man and apologizing to him.

Everyone who wonders:

Vickie does NOT work for Orange Lake. She doesn't even live in the state of Florida. It's clear to me that she has some tie to the resort. She may be related to the Wilson family or she may be on one of the HOA boards or she may just be good friends with someone in management...I don't know what her tie is. She clearly has one, but she doesn't work there. Why do people keep suggesting that she does?

The history with Vickie on TUG:

Actions have been taken from time to time in regards to her posts...including suspension of her posting priviledges. Those who assume that nothing has ever been done to try to get her to change her posting style are FLAT OUT WRONG. The major difference between Vickie and others is that Vickie is very quiet when she has gotten in trouble. She does not broadcast it to the whole world in an attempt to gain sympathy and/or make the TUG moderators look bad. That much is appreciated, but this idea that she gets away with everything...or that the moderators are on her side...is completely FALSE. Her arrogant posting style is snotty and obnoxious and I wish she would keep her mouth shut when someone posts about problems they have had at Orange Lake. And I have told her that on several occasions. But she continues to post the way she does...and others continue to respond the way they do. I'm not happy about it, but there's a limit to what I can do.

There's really not much more that can or should be said in a public forum. I'm quite certain that I have already said more than I should have...at least in the eyes of some. This isn't going to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. I can tell you that. For my part, I have gotten the message loud and clear of how people feel...and I will see what I can do to bring about some level of change. But I guarantee you, it won't be enough to satisfy some of the critics on this BBS.

Steve

[Steve Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve]

Hi Steve,

I would like to have you take this as constructive suggestions rather than just criticism.

I have been cut off with a take it and leave it attitude in "PMs and Emails" from the TUG leadership (Not from you).

Why not have some dialogue behind closed doors?

"This is the way it is and I will not talk to you about it again" attitude is not going to make one feel very welcome on TUG.

If anything it will cause the membership to be more aggressive, fight back, stop posting, drop out and/or stop reading the TUG Threads.

Walt

Walt,

I appreciate your thoughts. Hopefully, I haven't just displayed the very "this is the way it is and I will not talk to you about it again" attitude that you are talking about in my above post. That is certainly not my intent. It is obvious that many people, including you, have not been happy with the way they have been treated on TUG. That's one reason why Forums is doing so well. People have left TUG and come here because they didn't feel welcome and/or treated fairly at TUG. That's unfortunate, but it has happened...and it's likely to continue to happen.

Why? Part of it is that you can't please everyone all the time. But part of it is that TUG has a rather rigid "corporate culture" if you will...and I don't see this changing any time soon. Some changes would be nice, but they are not going to happen.

So why do people here keep beating their heads against the wall? At some point, we all have to accept that some things in life are not going to be the way that we would like them to be...or that they could be...or even the way that they should be. Dialogue is a good thing...but it's doubtful that anything you and I discuss or agree upon will bring about the changes on TUG that people here seek. I couldn't make those changes if I tried.

Steve

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

There's really not much more that can or should be said in a public forum. I'm quite certain that I have already said more than I should have...at least in the eyes of some. This isn't going to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction. I can tell you that. For my part, I have gotten the message loud and clear of how people feel...and I will see what I can do to bring about some level of change. But I guarantee you, it won't be enough to satisfy some of the critics on this BBS.

Steve

Steve I appreciate and applaud your candidness. It was not necessary. You don't owe anyone here or there an explanation. It helps to understand that there has been some intercourse regarding the "tone" of timesharetraveler.

Obviously you have been put in a difficult position as moderator with your hands tied and options limited. I do not envy you.

I believe you are doing us here at this BBS a great disservice by stating that you will not satisfy US. There are plenty of critics THERE but they are not allowed to express themselves.

[Steve Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve]

I believe you are doing us here at this BBS a great disservice by stating that you will not satisfy US. There are plenty of critics THERE but they are not allowed to express themselves.

Lawren,

Thanks for your comments. I'm a little bit surprised by the last paragraph which I have quoted above, however. It's amazing to me the importance of semantics in some of these things. I could have just as easily typed that it wouldn't satisfy the critics "on TUG" or "of TUG" rather than "on this BBS". That's all I meant. I don't think this needs to be an "US" versus "them" thing in the first place, but apparently that is how it is viewed. At any rate, I apologize for any offense.

Steve

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

TUG is fine. They want a collegial dynamic amongst posters and it is their right to enforce those rules of behavior.

As Steve has stated so eloquently here, they appear to me to be pretty even handed. I have been warned many times and I was even suspended once. I understood why they did it. I modified my own behavior in terms of how I post there and now, I rarely get edited or warned any longer.

The rules on TUG have definitely impacted how much I contribute there. I still use it on a daily basis. And, I really like the site. However, I find much more here now than over there so I find myself posting a lot more here than over there.

I do believe that it is in part because I cannot speak freely about subjects. I have to self censor myself or I know that I will get censored or warned. So, I just avoid those topics and those ideas altogether. I don't see it as a bad thing or anything I wish to have changed. It just is what it is.

A message board is what you make of it and the values of the moderators become the character and personality of the board. That's why there is room for more than one message board in timesharing.

When we have 10000 members here, we will get more rigid in our rules as well. It's the nature of the beast. But, it will be fun getting there.

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

All I can say is that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to be and be perceived as even-handed and fair all the time by everyone on both sides of a dispute.

As a moderator, one can only but try one's best. I believe that's what Steve sincerely tries to do.

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

Lawren,

It's amazing to me the importance of semantics in some of these things. I could have just as easily typed that it wouldn't satisfy the critics "on TUG" or "of TUG" rather than "on this BBS". That's all I meant. I don't think this needs to be an "US" versus "them" thing in the first place, but apparently that is how it is viewed. At any rate, I apologize for any offense.

Steve

No offense taken.

I have been guilty of semantical errors many many times. Perhaps the phrasing on "these" BBS boards would have been most appropriate.

Maybe, someday, OL will not be such a quagmire that insists on taking up everyone's very valuable time and patience.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Like you say, that hatchet was long ago buried, and not in you , but it was about, exactly, this. Others, OY, put you and me at each other.

That is what I would like to see an end to, others, OY because it is OY that it occurs, putting people at each other, then, likely, sitting back and reveling in what they have started.

I can unequivocally state that this is what Jim is all about. I wrongly made an accusation about Jim a while ago. I apologized, he accepted and it never came up again. Funny thing is, I don't even recall what the subject was about.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

This is not now and never has been about OL, the resort.

Maybe, someday, OL will not be such a quagmire that insists on taking up everyone's very valuable time and patience.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Let me repeat, this never was about OL, the resort.
- - - - -
There's no need to rehash the details of when it really blew up the first time.

I can tell you that it was when me and mine stayed at OL awhile back and upon our return I posted a factual statement of our visit. That post was entitled, "Where Never is Heard a Discouraging Word," a tongue-in-cheek reference to the many years I had nothing but wonderful experiences with/at OL, and then to suddenly hear and see, first-hand, several others not having a good time.

I saw some very disturbing things, included families who had driven way-too-far only to be turned away at check-in!

The ensuing discussion put at least one long-time user in the penalty box, and another shorter-time user on the sidelines permanently (except for sneaky returns), while the person that stirred the pot appeared to skate right through it with a mild warning.

That set the tone for what has followed since.

It is exactly the same as when I was labeled way-back-when, as was Tony, and Buff, and some others, because we got lumped in to stuff with SWSRN, and we never were able to shake that labeling.
- - - - - -

It is good, and healthy, for us to be able to get together and have these conversations, to get the buried stuff out in the open. If you do not, it festers.
- - - - - -
Let me repeat this also, this is as simple as a virtual handshake and an apology, and then we can all move on down the road.
- - - - - -

I have to ask this and pullleezze, don't jump me for asking, as I tried to research the roots of this, but.....................

I have read whatever I could find on this OL situation on TUG and here, however, I can't find some of the prior history related to the how/why/why of how this started. Threads get locked, deleted, moved or archived. Is there a thread of some sort of chronolgy or synopsis ?

Yes, I sort of know that it reeks of favoritism, contentiousness, censorship, spy v.s. spy, maybe a kickback or two, but in 100 words or less, can someone capsulize this epic saga (if that's possible?) .

Thank you.
Signed,
Wondering in Beantown

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

This is not now and never has been about OL, the resort.

Let me rephrase:
Maybe, someday, posting useful information and personal experiences about OL will not be such a quagmire that insists on taking up everyone's very valuable time and patience.


Those nasty semantics again.