OH, OH! More OL Insults OY!

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

Let me repeat, this never was about OL, the resort.
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There's no need to rehash the details of when it really blew up the first time.


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Jim,
Not really asking for a rehash here, just trying to gain some sort of understanding of how things got to where they are now as this has gone on for a long time. Was hoping for a brief, objective description, but that's okay. I've always tried to understand how things work and how/why the wheels fall off.
No problem. It 's probably so involved that reducing it down to its smallest components might not translate well or fairly.
Thanks
B.

[cindi Member Find all posts View Profile Close cindi]

You know, I really don't care a rats behind about OL personally.

Yet, I did find that what appeared to be favoritism towards one poster and censorship towards the rest very disturbing.

So Steve, thanks for your post(s). It is good to know that what appears on the surface isn't always what goes on behind.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Of course he doesn't want his messages posted. For one, he forced me to post the entire contents of an email that really did have the expectation of privacy. For two, it shows exactly how customers OY can expect to be treated if they do not cow-tow to the very narrow limits placed on them by a small number of judgemental people.

As I said, I have been biting my tongue since August, since he and two Moderators from OY came here to attack me, lying about what he had threatened in his messages. There was much piling on in that thread and I did not retaliate in it while my character was being assassinated.

To refresh memories, here it is. I was attacked for what I said in Post #21, some pretty mild stuff in the scheme of things, and 100% truthful from my vantage point.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=17463

Soon after he sent me those emails, he himself posted on a contentious OL forum, appearing to side with MissVickie. What experience does he have with OL that is more qualified than my 20-year stint, or that of others who have posted unbiasedly and been insulted for doing so, that makes him feel like he knows more than me, or is entitled to an opinion when I am not?

Is it the title that gives him superiority?

Y'all know I have worse messages saved, showing a pattern of this type of abuse. Let me know if you want me to drag them out.

I assume since he has stopped sending me threatening messages, that he realizes that he has no expectation to privacy or privilege of any sort. Nor should he.

I have heard many say that if you may be ashamed of something you say or do, or don't want it to be repeated, then dont say or do it.

Regardless of how he is compensated, or not compensated, he is the employee, or representative, of a company doing business with the public. I am a customer. That business, not the customers, is the one that makes the decision as to how they treat their customers.

I am not going OY and attacking and defaming anyone. Y'all are the ones coming here.

This has been going on for way too long. We are not talking about anything new here. Whether it was Carol's private yahoo forums, or TSTIPS, OH, or through private communications and in-person discussions, a constant has been the way OY deals with it's users. So why not get it out in the open, like we are here, and get something done about it?

If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.

Yes, I am calling for an apology, saying that would do it and we can all move on down the road (put up a new house and dock and live happily ever after). I am the one coming forward, saying this can be resolved. That is as big a man as I can be for now, and bigger than anything that has been offered from OY.

So, take the second step and make an offer as to how this can be resolved, for everyone's sake.

Jim:

I don't think [the sender] would appreciate you posting the contents of his emails to you here on Forums. Indeed, he has been quite upset when you have done similar things in the past. You must feel the need to justify your statements...and you must think posting [the sender's] communications with you is going to help...but it's not polite to post private emails on a public forum without the other person's permission. You seem to want [the sender] to apologize so you can move on. Perhaps you might consider being the big man and apologizing to him.

Steve

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Let me try it this way, the smallest components, this is about the personality conflicts of a very small number of people, myself included.

Jim,
Not really asking for a rehash here, just trying to gain some sort of understanding of how things got to where they are now as this has gone on for a long time. Was hoping for a brief, objective description, but that's okay. I've always tried to understand how things work and how/why the wheels fall off.
No problem. It 's probably so involved that reducing it down to its smallest components might not translate well or fairly.
Thanks
B.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Let me narrow it down.

Three staff members:

One because she got bent out of shape over the Sightings policy OY, a forum Carol C and I suggested in the first place. Carol Sightings and me Distressed Exchanges, which got combined.

A moderator turned administrator because he moderated the BSR board.

A moderator turned administrator turned moderator because he moderates the Florida and Central boards.

The latter two because those are the boards I frequent the most, or have in the past, so they were first on the scene of most of the accidents over the years.

One user.

I've tried to figure out how many hundreds of others I have communicated with or met, with no problems, and I'm never able to do that.

So, if I could work things out with four people, this is over for me, for good.

I've made the offer. Let them come forward. I know at least three of them are registered here.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Jim,

There is another way. That's for you to reach out and say that you would like for this to end and you apologize for anything you posted that contributed to this untenable situation. Admit that you understand how your posts can be misinterpreted, but your intent was never with malice.

If you did that, I'll bet that the 3 staff members would probably be more likely to take your side in future tussles. I'll bet that is what the other party did to gain sympathy for their position.

It is not taking the high road or even gracious to say that you are willing to accept an apology from those involved. It is taking the high road to offer a hand up and say that it doesn't matter what has happened in the past. I apology for anything I did to contribute to this situation. I'll do my best to not stoke the fires of discontent going forward. Let's let bygones be bygones and be friends.

Not giving you any advice. Just a different perspective.

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

Understood and appreciated.
This is how it has appeared to me on the surface not knowing the behind-the-scenes goings on.
B

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

That would only be meaningful only if all those involved were all at the table, willing to resolve this.

I have expressed my willingness to admit involvement, when I said, "Let me try it this way, the smallest components, this is about the personality conflicts of a very small number of people, myself included."

Let them think it over and determine if they would like to have it resolved.

Jim,

There is another way. That's for you to reach out and say that you would like for this to end and you apologize for anything you posted that contributed to this untenable situation.

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

Jim, I do want to stay neutral, but I find it really difficult to comprehend how you think it's such a wonderful idea to sort out such a complex and long relational breakdown from TUG in a public forum on TSFMs.

This, by asking for a public apology to boot.

Let me narrow it down.

Three staff members:

One because she got bent out of shape over the Sightings policy OY, a forum Carol C and I suggested in the first place. Carol Sightings and me Distressed Exchanges, which got combined.

A moderator turned administrator because he moderated the BSR board.

A moderator turned administrator turned moderator because he moderates the Florida and Central boards.

The latter two because those are the boards I frequent the most, or have in the past, so they were first on the scene of most of the accidents over the years.

One user.

I've tried to figure out how many hundreds of others I have communicated with or met, with no problems, and I'm never able to do that.

So, if I could work things out with four people, this is over for me, for good.

I've made the offer. Let them come forward. I know at least three of them are registered here.

[NativeCracker Member Find all posts View Profile Close NativeCracker]

Just my two cents worth: I don't have the full history of events (nor do I think my already swimming brain could handle all the gruesome details ), but I do see, just from this thread and Jim's link to another, that there has been, at a minimum, one pretty glaring wrong done to him. When he mentioned on this board back in August that he had been ordered to post nothing OY concerning Orange Lake or he would be booted, the OY powers-that-be pretty blatantly called him a liar, said that no such threat had ever been made, and vigorously chastised him for claiming it had. I'm surprised that Jim was able to resist posting the content of those e-mails right then and there. Based on the full e-mail text now posted in this thread, it's pretty apparent that he was instructed to not post on any OL topics. I don't understand why his claim was so vehemently denied. In any event, it appears that he was definitely falsely maligned in that situation.

Apologies or no apologies, now that everything is out in the open (or in the "Sunshine" as we Floridians call open government), maybe all those parties involved can step more carefully and be more aware of perceived biases and persecutions in their future dealings with one another. Wouldn't that be grand?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Yeah, quite a lot to ask, but it's a start, an offer to end this forever.

OH rather than OY for obvious reasons, because it is not allowed OY and those from OY have come OH to participate in our discussions. Without the involvement of neutral parties, such as here, there would be no discussion at all. If you have a better public site to set up the round table, name it.

NativeCracker has that incident, and it is just one, pretty well covered, except for the thing that ignited it. That is that the person who ordered me not to post about OL, then posted on one of the contentious threads himself. A virtual slap in the face that was supposed to go unnoticed by all but he and I.

I don't know what experience he has with OL that is any more qualified than mine.

His move was as demeaning as MissVickie, so it appeared to be in collaboration, or, at the very least, support for her.

I am not the only one who has received demeaning emails. Much like the question asked of MissVickie in the OL thread du jour, "Couldn't you have said that differently?"

The offer still stands. All of us can grow up and act like adults, drop our prejudices, shake hands, and go on down the road.

Jim, I do want to stay neutral, but I find it really difficult to comprehend how you think it's such a wonderful idea to sort out such a complex and long relational breakdown from TUG in a public forum on TSFMs.

This, by asking for a public apology to boot.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I was away and really had no time to post here properly.
But I am now

Jim you are a friend of mine and so is everyone else that you are having trouble with. as many know me, I am as neutral and fair as they come.

So here is my 2 cents

I don't care what has occurred in the past, You do not put anyone on the spot and ask for an apology like this in a public forum. I would have told you off by now if that was me. If someone feels they have done you wrong you know I am always first to admit it. The apology is up to them to give to you in an email, phone, pm or posting it on the board. You don't ask for it as you have. This is not do it my way or else. If I were them and you did this to me that would have made me furious.

Steve has posted that he is following there rules. He is doing his job best as he can. It is not his doing he is simply the policeman. If you want change then contact the owner of the site or If you don't like it don't go back. But for some reason you like the punishment and continue to go back for more.

Here is my take if you are using someone else's BBS then you go by there rules weather you like it or not. If you don't like it you leave or you feel they are treating you unfairly you leave. It's that easy. You can also get your own site going and believe me if you do you will see what it is like.

I had started to post in a Aruba board and I was edited for providing them information. It is there lost that I am no longer there not mine. There are plenty of boards to go to.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

If I were the TUG admin, I would probably permanently ban the couple of members who are causing all the trouble on the OLCC threads. You decide for yourself who you think that would be.

All of the feuds aren't helping newbies with their questions about OLCC and these diatribes are getting quite boring.

I'd stop with the warnings and if it happened again, I would just eliminate the problem.

It would be for the greater good of the community at large which is who TUG is actually serving. This feud is making everyone suffer.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Despite not resolving the problem, I believe this has been a healthy discussion. It has been one of the most open discussions and has demonstrated it is not just about me and them.

I thought long about bringing up the August incident or saying anything more at all when it was obvious that I am not the only one that understands the real problem. Since I never got to get my 2-cents worth in at that time, I have now, so we are about back to neutral.

I have sensed that when we have these discussions here, although they normally end appearing to be unproductive, that things do improve slightly.

My offer, as imperfect in some eyes as it might be, still stands. Let's work this out for the good of all.