Joann - Lehigh Acres

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

In another development here, the local county is dealing with a court decision that their Planning and Zoning Department is illegal. P & Z is a very big deal here with the Lake and development and all.

As a couple of examples, if you wish to place a boat dock on Table Rock Lake, or to rent out your house as a vacation rental, those and other actions have to go through P & Z, a public hearing, newspaper notices, and mailing to property owners within 1000' feet. Then, an appointed panel makes the decisions after the hearing.

It is that, the appointed panel rather than elected officials doing the rezoning, which has been declared illegal. So, the entire manner in which P & Z operates has been thrown out.

The Plaintiff in that lawsuit is MPI, the developer of StoneBridge Village/LedgeStone golf course (site of Escapes! at StoneBridge Village). The decision will have a far-reaching impact of things here, and in some nearby counties.

Stone County Planning & Zoning Declared Invalid Ozarks Law & Economy

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

DW said Oprah was pretty sad today . . . people who have lost their houses living in tents and stuff like that.

That's sorta what I was wondering when I started this thread.

Places like Lehigh, Cape Coral, et al, were the last bastion of affordable housing when SW FL was booming.

Thousands have lost their houses.

If they cannot afford affordable, exactly where are they living now?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Speaking of Florida and the two issues the current governor compaigned on, saying he was going to straighten them out, what's up with property taxes and insurance.

The things that made my decision not to buy a very inexpensive deal of a house last month was property taxes and insurance. Who cares that the house was only $65K if those two items are going to be $6000-plus a year!? We'll just keep timesharing until we can't, then get an RV and go to some place like Bahia Honda.

And how does denying companies like Allstate and State Farm rate increases, and, thus, running them off, help solve the insurance problem? All that extra coverage, now has to be spread among fewer insurors. That increases their exposure, and risk, and will lead to higher premiums, probably higher than what has already been denied.

What's your take on Florida's problems? Are things getting better or worse?

[Marti Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Marti]

Could this be - What went wrong - Lehigh Acres, Fla


Chinese drywall a hazard to American homeowners

Owners of Florida homes built between 2004 and 2005 have discovered dangerous Chinese drywall to be behind heating and air conditioning system failures, as well as air quality issues in their homes.

With the home building industry already in a tail spin, this latest fatal flaw is potentially impacting home values in a big way, as the drywall has been confirmed as the source of both home system failures and air quality issues.

Imported and used in new construction during the Gulf Coast building boom of 2004-2005, the drywall was manufactured in China by Knauf Plasterboard (Tianjin) Co. Ltd. Domestically produced gypsum drywall is generally the first choice of U.S. builders, but supply shortages in the wake of Hurricane Katrina and lower prices ushered the Knauf product into many a new build.

After a few years of mounting homeowner complaints, testing completed this month by both the manufacturer and high-volume builder Lennar Corp. has confirmed that the drywall is releasing sulfur-based gases that corrode air-conditioner coils, computer wiring and even metal picture frames hung on drywalled surfaces.

As if that's not enough, there also an odor─a rotten-egg smell that's released when the drywall is cut into for repairs and structural investigations. The Florida Department of Health has tested these gaseous emissions and determined that they don't pose an "immediate health threat," but additional testing continues as homeowners worry about their families' health and the reduced resale potential of their homes.

This Chinese drywall issue is limited to Florida, and Lennar
is working with owners of its homes to conduct air quality tests
and replace the offending product ─ a costly and involved process
that often requires relocating homeowners during the repair period.


www. walletpop .com/blog /2009/01/23/
chinese-drywall-a-hazard-to-american-homeowners

[rapmarks Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close rapmarks]

the Chinese Drywall is in very expensive subdivisions in Fort Myers, Estero, etc. It is in some homes built by WCI and Lennar in 2004 and 2005 .Lennar is completely redoing those houses. I don't think that is the problem with the foreclosures in Lehigh.

[The Conch Man Past Goumba President & BigFrank's Cigar Buddy! Find all posts View Profile Close The Conch Man]

Think you are right R&P as we built our home in 2005 & we don't have the Chinese dry wall as stated by Marti but I wouldn't be a bit surprised that it wasn't used here in Florida as home builders will do the cheapest on anything they build as you have the option to upgrade.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Why would lenders be anxious to foreclose properties in an area already rampant with foreclosures, thus further driving down property values, including the value of the property they are foreclosing?

Because they don't care about any of that; they only care about getting their money out of each foreclosure.

Consider this:

A important point for homeowners to remember is that, if they put down less than 20% of the purchase price, they are probably paying Private Mortgage Insurance (PMI). Even though the homeowners themselves pay the PMI premium on a monthly basis, this kind of policy insures the bank against the default of the loan, and if an owner goes into foreclosure, the insurance will pay the bank the amount of the mortgage left unpaid. Therefore, if a mortgage is covered with PMI, the bank can collect the insurance on the policy they forced on the borrowers instead of seek a deficiency judgment. Citifinancial itself states that, "If you have Private mortgage insurance, a lender can use this money to offset any losses instead of getting a deficiency judgment."

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

& how does AIG figure into this?

One of their divisions is a major provider of Private Mortgage Insurance.

AIG is now suing lenders, such as Countrywide, for misrepresenting the quality of their loans.

You can google it.

But, this is why what happened happened.

[longtimer Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close longtimer]

Are things getting any better down there? Up here in PA, it seems home prices have stabilized a little. We still have foreclosures, but there doesn't seem to be the level of frustration that was around early this year. The biggest problem here is from contractors who have started developments and went bankrupt, leaving some homes half built or property owners without water/sewer hook-ups or paved streets and driveways. It's sad, the homeowners paid for these services and now will have to pay someone else to get them completed.

[JoAnn Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JoAnn]

Are things getting any better down there? Up here in PA, it seems home prices have stabilized a little. We still have foreclosures, but there doesn't seem to be the level of frustration that was around early this year. The biggest problem here is from contractors who have started developments and went bankrupt, leaving some homes half built or property owners without water/sewer hook-ups or paved streets and driveways. It's sad, the homeowners paid for these services and now will have to pay someone else to get them completed.

Homes are selling, but WAY below what they originally sold for. There is a house in our area that sold 8 years ago for about $200...3 BR. 2 baths, lovely full size pool on a lake and just sold for $85,900...but the owners had moved to GA, and rented it out for a year. The renters wanted to buy but couldn't get a loan and they left the house in a real mess.

Many homes were started and never finished and have squatters in them, appliances, cupboards, A/Cs, water systems and the copper stolen from them And some have Chinese drywall that will have to come out.

A lot of the people just walked away from their houses and moved into homes that they could rent cheaper than their house payments were. There are many duplexes that are standing empty now. To many have lost their jobs and moved out. There were a lot of 'short' sales and foreclosuers and bank owned homes.

We just got our TRIM notices (what our taxes will be IF no changes are made.) Because of the number of short sales, foreclosures and bankrupcies....which is what they are basing our taxes on...our assessed value has dropped over $100,000. So the good news is, our taxes will be lower this year, but the bad news is, we probably wouldn't be able to sell our house for what we paid for it....and we built long before the prices went sky high.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

What a mess Florida is right now. I live in Miami and am a realtor and this market is still a disaster area. The realtor association keeps saying things are getting better but I think it's wishful thinking.

I've got several clients that have been in the process of foreclosure for almost 2 years now and the banks have turned down good short sale contracts that should have gone thru because I think they were taking a wait and see attitude with Obama getting elected and saving the planet.
Also the banks are sometimes going as far as the sale date and not even taking possession of the property back because then they have to deal with empty green mosquito infested pools, vagrants in the property, sky high grass and homeowner associations. Some people are getting stuck with the house even if they don't want it anymore because the bank doesn't want it either.

Of my clients that are being foreclosed on, I have told them to save every penny they've got so they can have enough down to allay fears of a new landlord by giving as much as 6 months rent up front in some cases.
It's getting tougher to find a landlord that is not in foreclosure himself and that won't scam the prospective tenant.

I totally understand the disaster in Lehigh as I own land there that I was going to develop but thank God never got around to it. Many investors built homes to flip and many people flocked to Southwest Florida from Miami and Ft. Lauderdale because they felt that it was their last chance to own a single family home as Miami/Ft. Lauderdales prices had shot sky high. I've got many a client who went to Cape Coral literally on bus trips from Realtors who specialized in Lehigh and Cape Coral and sold them nice homes in nice subdivisions for what seemed to be a bargain compared to Miami. The only problem that these people didn't plan on was that these towns have traditionally been retirement communities and there was not enough work to sustain a younger influx of people.

The fact that loans were given to just about anyone with a pulse and a stated income contributed to this disaster as well. Many people and brokers were guilty of this too, just bit off more than they could realistically chew because they didn't want to be left behind in the American dream train.

I own several income properties as well as my downtown condo and when I saw that the prices were just out of my comfort zone I just gave up on ever owning a home. Thank God I did, as it spared me a big mess. I just figured I'd have to move to Arkansas to be able to afford a home in my retirment years. Sadly that is no longer the case as I can buy a house in Cape Coral for what it cost me to buy my last car.

In my town of Miami we have a city just south of us Homestead that is literally a squatters heaven right now. People are just moving into the vacant houses that no one wants and turning on the power and living for free. I mean living in 2500 sq. ft. houses with granite countertops and tile roofs. I don't know how this can be controlled because honestly no one is watching. So everyone in my town is developing the thinking of "why should I pay my rent or mortgage? Everyone else is getting away with it so why shouldn't I. After all I can save $20,000 a year by not paying my fair share". I guess you can't blame people as they believe since they have lost all their equity they are not going to come out of this without something for themselves. Not to mention the stimulus money scams going on right now as well. But that's another thread.

And this is in no way over. There are so many pre-foreclosures sitting on the market now which eventually will become foreclosures so I think we haven't seen the end of this yet. Maybe we haven't even seen the worst of it yet.

Of course this is all my opinion and I wish I had a crystal ball but it ain't pretty down here in the Sunshine state. Don't even get me started on the taxes and insurance.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

The house next door to me sold last week. It was abandoned last December.

[longtimer Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close longtimer]

So sorry things are still awful down there. My thought are with you. I hope the market turns for the better soon. Maybe Obama should send some stimulus checks to homeowners to help them pay their mortgages.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

In a way Lehigh has come full circle in the 20 years since we first stayed there.

Then it was a small town surrounded by 10,000 unkept lots.

Now it is a small town surrounded by 10,000 lots, some kept up, some unkempt and some unkept with houses on them.



The situation is finally creeping into our area. We have had two appraisals recently. The first appraiser said that it has taken awhile for distressed properties to work through the system, but they are now showing up and pulling down the comps. He appraised our house at $225,000 market value with a cost approach of $254,000.

About 30 days another appraiser had our market value at $175,000 with a cost approach of $185,000.

At the peak it might have gotten $279,000.

There's a lesson there somewhere.

[pranas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pranas]

What a mess Florida is right now. I live in Miami and am a realtor and this market is still a disaster area. The realtor association keeps saying things are getting better but I think it's wishful thinking.

Of my clients that are being foreclosed on, I have told them to save every penny they've got so they can have enough down to allay fears of a new landlord by giving as much as 6 months rent up front in some cases.
It's getting tougher to find a landlord that is not in foreclosure himself and that won't scam the prospective tenant.


In my town of Miami we have a city just south of us Homestead that is literally a squatters heaven right now. People are just moving into the vacant houses that no one wants and turning on the power and living for free. I mean living in 2500 sq. ft. houses with granite countertops and tile roofs. I don't know how this can be controlled because honestly no one is watching. So everyone in my town is developing the thinking of "why should I pay my rent or mortgage? Everyone else is getting away with it so why shouldn't I. After all I can save $20,000 a year by not paying my fair share". I guess you can't blame people as they believe since they have lost all their equity they are not going to come out of this without something for themselves. Not to mention the stimulus money scams going on right now as well. But that's another thread.

And this is in no way over. There are so many pre-foreclosures sitting on the market now which eventually will become foreclosures so I think we haven't seen the end of this yet. Maybe we haven't even seen the worst of it yet.

Of course this is all my opinion and I wish I had a crystal ball but it ain't pretty down here in the Sunshine state. Don't even get me started on the taxes and insurance.

A little on the exagerated side but your overall point is okay. You must drive a very expensive car if the homes on the other side of the penisula are about the same price as your car. Homestead was not an affuent or very desirable area to call home until builders started building more expensive homes there fairluy recently. It had some very dangerous nighborhoods and the community has always been economically depressed, especially after the base closed.Surely, you don't think affluent people bought those new homes for personal use. I own a home on the barrier island and most of my colleagues at work own homes so to say that that everyone is walking away from their mortages is stretching it a little to far. I have no sympatfhy for the speculators or people who refinanced their homes to have more money to spend on luxury items or bought homes on low variable rates and then couldn't afford to pay their mortagaes. I saw my home more than triple in value in a few years and was tempted to sell but didn't. Of course the value of my home came down drastically but I am still well ahead of the game. Yes there are some vacant homes in my neighborhood but most of them are a result of scam jobs on the banks. There are a few who got in over their heads and then couldn't afford their payment, taxes, and insurance. Florida has no state income tax and my taxes are not are not any higher than family members pay in New England and Ohio. Home insurance rates are unbelieveably high, much higher than my tax bill. I wouldn't pay these rates if I didn't enjoy living here.


Yes, we have a problem in SE Florida but it is mostly with newly built condos or homes. There are lots of very nice condo buildings that are sitting empty because the developers overbuilt. We have gone through these boom bust periods before and this surely will not be our last cycle. There is still not enough affordable housing to meet the needs in Broward or Dade County.