Ka'anapali Beach Club Owner's Problem

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Wow, it appears they're denying that Embassy ever sold a view that was strictly ocean front. If I had documentation to the contrary, I'd be fighting this one with everything I could find. Since your on the island for two weeks I'd take the advice above and start the official complaint process.

[d0ugie_fresh Member Find all posts View Profile Close d0ugie_fresh]

Wow, it appears they're denying that Embassy ever sold a view that was strictly ocean front. If I had documentation to the contrary, I'd be fighting this one with everything I could find. Since your on the island for two weeks I'd take the advice above and start the official complaint process.

Definitely the best way to go about fixing the process, but this is exactly what a person shouldn't have to do while vacationing! Owning at a resort is supposed to make things easier, not more stressful! It's just not how I would expect to spend my two weeks in paradise.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Definitely the best way to go about fixing the process, but this is exactly what a person shouldn't have to do while vacationing! Owning at a resort is supposed to make things easier, not more stressful! It's just not how I would expect to spend my two weeks in paradise.

Keep in mind that Walt purchased in 2001. Since then, KBC has been managed/developed by Embassy, Sunterra and now DRI. That's 3 companies in 8 years. Mistakes are bound to happen.

DRI has apparently moved Walt into the view he states he purchased and paid a premium to receive. Credit should be given to DRI for that move. However, to protect his interests, since he's on the island now would be the time to find out what paperwork is involved and start any process to protect his investment while it's convenient. It will be a little more difficult to begin this process once he's back on the mainland.

It may come down to not even needing the official complaint to be made but, it's best to have that prepared and ready to go if it's needed and do it now rather than increasing the stress once home. It's bad enough to be stressed out while on vacation. IMO, it would be worse to continue to stress about every time he goes on vacation. Better to solve the problem now while it's easier than to increase the stress by making the resolution process more difficult.

You are right, a person shouldn't have to do this while on vacation. It's one of the reason's I've said DRI's motto of simplicity isn't quite there yet. At the moment, I'm finding DRI the most difficult of the companies I have to deal with and, they are the only company that has caused me any stress over my vacation ownership in the last two years.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Views from KBC

First of all I would like to make some points.

1) I bought an Deluxe Ocean Front View. Units x08, x09, x10, x11, x12 are Ocean Front at the KBC. x=floors ie. 512 is 5th floor.

2) Even if I didn't buy Deluxe Ocean Front View, and according to DRI only bought Deluxe Ocean View, I made reservations for Jan. 10th 2009 on Jan. 10, 2008. One full year before my arrival. So why didn't I get a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit.

3) I got to KBC at 11:00 on Jan. 10th 2009. So I should have been first in line for a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit, if they give them out as first person to get to KBC.

4) When I asked how and who gets the Ocean Front, I got no answer.

5) When I first got to the KBC, they had me in a middle unit on the North Side.

6) Look at the pictures and tell me which view would you pay extra for?




North Side View facing the Mountains



This is a picture from Unit 512. It is a end unit and this would be the best view from any north side unit facing the Ocean.



View from Unit 406




View from Deluxe Ocean Front Unit 512



View from Deluxe Ocean Front Unit 512



View from Deluxe Ocean Front Unit 512

Now keep in mind that ALL Views are considered Deluxe Ocean View and all are equal to each other according to DRI.

Walt

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

My My Someone must really hate you owners at KBC, They painted the resort PINK!!

PS the views from the ocean front unit are really great!!

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

At One Time It Was All Pink

My My Someone must really hate you owners at KBC, They painted the resort PINK!!

PS the views from the ocean front unit are really great!!

They added a sand color to some of the wall. It looks better now. Before it was all pink.

Walt

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Hardly anyone on the beach.....what is occupancy like? How are the crowds?

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

The KBC seems Filled

Hardly anyone on the beach.....what is occupancy like? How are the crowds?

It seems like the place is filled up. But for some reason the swimming pool and beach never seems filled with too many people.

That is another reason I like KBC over the other top Timeshare Resorts on Maui.

As nice as the other Top Resorts are in Maui, I also feel that another thing that is better at the KBC is the view from the Deluxe Ocean Front Units. Also the Deluxe Ocean Front Units are closer to the beach than the others.

The pictures were taken about 2:00 pm Maui time.

There are 4 things that are not a part of the KBC anymore.

1) All you can eat Breakfast for about $7.00 per day

2) Evening free Beer and cocktails.

3) Daily cleaning of the Units and new towels each day.

4) Fine dining at the Embassy.

I miss the Breakfast most. The Breakfast today cost me $31.50 for 2 people. It was good a breakfast but not much better than before.

All this and a MF increase of about $400.00 from 2 years ago.

Walt

[frankieswhite Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close frankieswhite]

Resolution

Who at the resort finally authorized the ocean front unit? We just booked our 2009 Deluxe Ocean View unit and found out by accident that is not a ocean front unit. The employee I talked to at owner services would only stated that she would "note" in our reservation that we requested an ocean front unit. When I asked to speak to someone else, I was put on the voicemail maze and never got a real person.

We purchased this unit from Embassy in 2003. The Deed states we have "an undivided 2/102 interest in Apartment No. 609 or any other of the same type of unit. How can DIR just decide these deeds are null and void? Sorry, I do not buy that they are not aware or that there is some misunderstanding.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I own Unit #611, week 51, ODD YEARS

x08, x09, x10, x11, x12, with x being the floor are Deluxe Ocean Front units.

Who at the resort finally authorized the ocean front unit? We just booked our 2009 Deluxe Ocean View unit and found out by accident that is not a ocean front unit. The employee I talked to at owner services would only stated that she would "note" in our reservation that we requested an ocean front unit. When I asked to speak to someone else, I was put on the voicemail maze and never got a real person.

We purchased this unit from Embassy in 2003. The Deed states we have "an undivided 2/102 interest in Apartment No. 609 or any other of the same type of unit. How can DIR just decide these deeds are null and void? Sorry, I do not buy that they are not aware or that there is some misunderstanding.

Did you pay extra for an Ocean Front and were you told you were buying an Ocean Front Unit?

Walt

PS.... I talked to a Fix week owner of 2 units for back to back weeks. They have a Fixed this week and next week for the same unit. on arrival KBC informed them they would have to move the 2nd week. The owners said No way. The 2nd week is their fixed week and KBC back down. But why would they even try do it?

Walt

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I talked to a Fix week owner of 2 units for back to back weeks. They have a Fixed this week and next week for the same unit. on arrival KBC informed them they would have to move the 2nd week. The owners said No way. The 2nd week is their fixed week and KBC back down. But why would they even try do it?

Walt

To many owner types to keep up with would be my guess. Fixed week/fixed unit, Hawaiian trust, THE Club, floating weeks not in either a trust or THE Club.

Fixed week and fixed unit means they wouldn't be able to move them. One look at their ownership type and they'd know they had to back off.

Now, what happens to the owner/exchanger that's expecting the ocean front unit that KBC allowed them to reserve and they don't have because the owner of the fixed week/fixed unit stood their ground?

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

According to Disclosure

Under Vacation Ownership Program............

C Specifics Of An Ownership Interest.

The Developer may not grant Fixed Time Rights for more than 35% of the total number of Time Periods in any Use Year.......

Walt

To many owner types to keep up with would be my guess. Fixed week/fixed unit, Hawaiian trust, THE Club, floating weeks not in either a trust or THE Club.

Fixed week and fixed unit means they wouldn't be able to move them. One look at their ownership type and they'd know they had to back off.

Now, what happens to the owner/exchanger that's expecting the ocean front unit that KBC allowed them to reserve and they don't have because the owner of the fixed week/fixed unit stood their ground?

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

After Reading The Disclosure

The Disclosure is 21 pages long with over another 25 pages of exhibit pages.

As I wrote we were told and sold an Deluxe Ocean Front (View) Unit. I was willing to pay more for a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit.

It appears others were also told and sold a Deluxe Ocean Front Unit. Units on each floor....x08, x09, x10, x11, x12 are the true Deluxe Ocean Front Units.

It appears that DRI is saying there was never a Deluxe Ocean Front View. That most Pool Side Units and North Side Units on the Ohana Tower are now considered Deluxe Ocean Views.

By the pictures I posted a reasonable person can see that Pool Side Units and North Side are not LIKE views of a Ocean Front Unit.

At the time I bought the price break down according to Exhibit 4 was:

Type 1A.....Scenic View......Every Year...$18,890...Odd/Even Years...$12,900

Type 1B.....Ocean View.....Every Year....$21,890...Odd/Even Years...$15,900

Type 1C....Deluxe Ocean View...Every Year...$25,890...Odd/Even Years... $17,900.

There are some interesting points in the Disclosure, Exhibit 1.

Type 1A.......Scenic View........One Bedroom with sleeping accommodations for up to four persons and a view of the countryside.

Type 1B.......Ocean View.........One Bedroom with sleeping accomodations for up to four persons and a partial ocean View.

Type 1C.......Deluxe Ocean View.....One Bedroom with sleeping accomodations for up to four persons and a Deluxe Ocean View.

Since an Ocean View is a partial view of the Ocean, would a reasonable person think that a Deluxe Ocean View would mean an Ocean Front unit with a total ocean view?

Would a reasonable person, that has a deed that states he owns Unit #611 which is an Ocean Front Unit and a Type 1C unit, also think he owns an Ocean Front Unit?

Walt

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Would a reasonable person, that has a deed that states he owns Unit #611 which is an Ocean Front Unit and a Type 1C unit, also think he owns an Ocean Front Unit?

Walt

What others think is probably irrelevant, Walt. Somewhere in the Disclosure Statement - likely in the appendices - should be a schedule that lists exactly which rooms fit into which categories.

Right now your best information is the fact that you have documents produced by the sales person that say deluxe ocean front, and that you and others were apparently sold something that doesn't exist.

[tabbyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tabbyc]

Reasonable Man Law

A hypothetical person who exercises "those qualities of attention, knowledge, intelligence and judgment which society requires of its members for the protection of their own interest and the interests of others."

It does matter what "a reasonable man" may think!

The phrase does not apply to a person's ability to reason, but rather the prudence with which he acts under the circumstances.

A test used to determine whether or not one person was negligent towards another. Negligence will exist upon a failure to do "something which a reasonable man, guided by those considerations which ordinarily regulate the conduct of human affairs, would do, or [the doing of] something which a reasonable and prudent person would not do.

Even if there is hidden or ambiguous language in the contract a court of law will always look to the reasonable man law and juries will typically be sympathetic to an individual rights when they are facing a large business attempting to deny those rights.