Ka'anapali Beach Club Owner's Problem

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

Deluxe Oceanview Units

Walt, I took a look at mp picture of the building and noted: The southside overlooking the pool area in the front building has 48 units (12 floors - units
x04, x05, x06, x07). The front of the building (x08, x09, x10, x11, x12) has eleven floors with the one bedroom units (55 units) The 12th floor has a penthouse two bedroom suite in the middle, and I believe three one bedrooms on each side of the penthouse suite. That would be 48 (poolside) + 55 (front- floors 1-11) + 3 (12th floor) = 106 deluxe oceanview units.

Am I right? Then where did they ever come up with anything on that northside as a deluxe oceanview?

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

My Disclosure Has A List Of Units with View Location

Walt, I took a look at mp picture of the building and noted: The southside overlooking the pool area in the front building has 48 units (12 floors - units
x04, x05, x06, x07). The front of the building (x08, x09, x10, x11, x12) has eleven floors with the one bedroom units (55 units) The 12th floor has a penthouse two bedroom suite in the middle, and I believe three one bedrooms on each side of the penthouse suite. That would be 48 (poolside) + 55 (front- floors 1-11) + 3 (12th floor) = 106 deluxe oceanview units.

Am I right? Then where did they ever come up with anything on that northside as a deluxe oceanview?

I have a Disclosure List of Units with View Locations. Of the units on the North Side of the Ohana Tower only Units x13 were called Deluxe Ocean View. The rest of the units on the North Side of the Tower were listed as Ocean View.

I was told that all units above the 4th floor on the North Side of the Ohana Tower are now Deluxe Ocean View. I saw a map of the 8th floor when I was at the KBC and that is what I saw. The whole Ohana Tower is now Deluxe Ocean View above the 4th floor.

When I asked for a map of the floors, I was told that it was not available to owners or non-owners.


I did find a map here.

Vacation Resort Experts

And Here

http://tug2.com/ResortImages/Hawaii/Maui/embka_fp.gif

I'm not sure when they start calling the whole North Side as Deluxe Ocean View. I'm not sure how they can to do. It would appear that they are breaking the contract by doing it.

Walt

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I Found This Today.

Walt

TimeshareGuru




I’m a Platinum Elite owner and can place requests for you such as early checkin and room preferences! There are requests, not guarantees, but are often honored! The least honored request is for corner rooms (more successful when reservation is made 10-13 months in advance), but I have very good success with early checkin and ocean front units for the DOV reservations! You will be my named guest, which means you do not need to attend a timeshare presentation. Please also see my FAQ section just below the pictures!

Kaanapali Beach Club
- * SV = Scenic View, OV = Ocean View, DOV = Deluxe OV which is in the ocean front section of this ocean front resort!Prices for reservations less than 60 days in advance:
- Most of Nov-Dec! SV $650 PCa
- Most of Nov-Dec! OV $850 PCa
- Most of Nov-Dec! DOV $1,200 PCa
- 01/10/2009 - 01/17/2009 1BR DOV $1,200 PCa
- 01/11/2009 - 01/18/2009 1BR DOV $1,955 PCa drops to $1,200 on 13-Nov-08
- 01/12/2009 - 01/19/2009 1BR DOV $1,955 PCa
- 01/13/2009 - 01/20/2009 1BR DOV $1,955 PCa
- 01/14/2009 - 01/21/2009 1BR DOV $1,955 PCa
- 01/17/2009 - 01/24/2009 2BR OF Presidential $6,500 PCa - The ultimate 2BR Ocean Front Unit!

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I found this on the DRI Web Site

I think the the Maui Embassy and the Point at Piopu were owned by the same people at the very beginning.

I find it interesting that at the Point at Piopu, Ocean View is "View is mostly the ocean"

And Ocean Front is "Full ocean view."

at the Embassy/KBC

Ocean View is "Partial ocean View."

Deluxe Ocean View is "Deluxe Ocean View."

KBC is calling the Pool Side Units and most North side Units as Deluxe Ocean View.

I think it is a stretch to say the Pool Side Unit is a "View of mostly the Ocean." The View is mostly of the Pool.

And the North Side Unit is really a stretch to be called "View Mostly of the Ocean." The Parking lot and the buildings north of the KBC are the main view.

At Point at Piopu the top Category is Ocean Front or Full Ocean View. At the KBC Deluxe Ocean View is the top Category. Therefore Deluxe Ocean View should be Ocean Front.

This is the way it was sold to me. Was I misled, is the Embassy/Sunterra/DRI just changing the Categories or both?

Walt


From DRI Web Site:

http://www.diamondresortsforums.com/...ht=ocean+front

For future reference, here are the unit view types and descriptions for the Point at Poipu:


Garden View: No view of ocean; mostly a view of the landscaping and/or pool
Partial Ocean View: Some ocean visible; the remainder of the view is Garden View
Ocean View: View is mostly the ocean with the remainder of the view being Garden View
Ocean Front: Full ocean view

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

They were both Embassy Vacation Resorts Too!

Both KBC and the Point @ Poipu were both Embassy Vacation Resorts before they were DRI resorts. Like Walt, the only reason I bought a timeshare week at KBC was because I wanted the oceanfront.

I first rented an oceanfront unit from another owner who had the deluxe oceanview at both resorts - Maui & Kauai. Even renting from this private timeshare owner I always received the oceanfront each time. The sales presentation at the resort will show you an oceanfront model as their deluxe oceanview.

After two consecutive visits and experiencing what is truly a deluxe oceanview, I decided to buy my own timeshare week at KBC. My deed specifically states deluxe oceanview, and assigns one of the oceanfront units. I would have never accepted the purchase of such a deed had they assigned anything other than a front unit.

Like Walt, there was never a problem getting the oceanfront until DRI took over.

If you go for the timeshare presentation at KBC under the current management of DRI, they will show you an oceanfront unit as their deluxe oceanview model. And you can read various reader reviews where guests (not owners) but traders and those going for the timeshare presentation package, received the oceanfront views.

How is DRI getting by with this?

And who is this Peter Chocholak, the timeshareguru, who proudly boasts of his 100% success record of always getting the oceanfront rooms?

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

For future reference, here are the unit view types and descriptions for the Point at Poipu:


Garden View: No view of ocean; mostly a view of the landscaping and/or pool
Partial Ocean View: Some ocean visible; the remainder of the view is Garden View
Ocean View: View is mostly the ocean with the remainder of the view being Garden View
Ocean Front: Full ocean view

Walt - that's just what's listed on the web site for informational purposes. As you are well aware, that can change at any time.

However, the timeshare program documents for the resort specifically identify five ownership types, four view categories, and the specific units in each view category. If you have a Type II-A ownership (corresponding to ocean front) there is no ambiguity about which units correspond to your ownership.

In reviewing the thread, one significant difference between Po'ipu and Ka'anapali is that Po'ipu never had a dual hotel/timeshare status. From the moment that sales started, every unit in the resort was in the timeshare program. The hotel operation that did exist was simply unsold developer inventory. That's different from Ka'anapali, where certain floors were timeshare and certain floors were hotel. It appears that situation opened a door for redefining views as floors of the hotel were converted to timeshare. My guess is that they took liberties to redefine view categories as additional units were added to the timeshare program.

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

What about those Two Bedrooms on the 12th Floor?

There are (2)two bedroom units on the 12th floor at KBC, directly facing the oceanfront. What category does DRI call this? Is it deluxe oceanview too? If so, why is it any different than the one bedroom deluxe oceanview units on the oceanfront?

The other two bedroom units at KBC are not on the front - so what category does DRI put these in? Why are they any different by definition with the one bedroom views?

Deluxe oceanview is oceanfront. The difference in the purchase price of the two views (oceanview and deluxe oceanview) reflects that we paid for this exclusive view.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

The 2 Bedroom on the 12th Floor of the Ohana Tower are Ocean Front!

There are (2)two bedroom units on the 12th floor at KBC, directly facing the oceanfront. What category does DRI call this? Is it deluxe oceanview too? If so, why is it any different than the one bedroom deluxe oceanview units on the oceanfront?

The other two bedroom units at KBC are not on the front - so what category does DRI put these in? Why are they any different by definition with the one bedroom views?

Deluxe oceanview is oceanfront. The difference in the purchase price of the two views (oceanview and deluxe oceanview) reflects that we paid for this exclusive view.

From my Embassy Disclosure:

Type III........Deluxe Ocean View...........2 Bedroom......Oceanfront Location.

Units x08, x09, x10, x11, and x12 (x being the floor) are the units that would be considered to be Ocean Front on the Ohona Tower by anyone. There is no way that you could call the Pool Side Units Ocean Front.

Type III was unit #1208 in the 104 Disclosure form. The Location is Ocean Front. And both unit #1208 and unit #1212 in the 413 Disclosure form.

So units x08 and x12 on all floors have the same location as 1208 and 1212. Therefore they should be Ocean Front too.

x09, x10, x11 also have the same location as x08 and x12. Therefore they should be listed as Ocean Front too.

This is why I am saying that the Disclosure is not as black and white as DRI would have you believe.

Walt

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Have Locations Changed?

DRI and KBC seem to be calling Units 914, 915, and 916 Deluxe Ocean View now. But they were not in 2001. So, how can the Location get better in these units?

And if 1208 and 1212 are OceanFront, how can 908 and 912 not be Ocean Front? And If 908 and 912 are Ocean Front then 909, 910, and 911 would have to be called OceanFront too.

I think there are enough inconsistency in this Disclosure that it could be called misleading.

I also saw this on Diamond Resort Owners Web Site.

We were assigned room 1223 which is on the top floor of the resort BUT it was some distance from the beach. Between our room and the ocean was the mini golf and part of the garden, i.e. our room overlooked the mini golf and garden.

To our left was another arm of the building that went towards the ocean so we could not see the ocean to the left of us. We had an unobstructed view of the ocean straight ahead and to the right.

The lady at the desk said that our room is classified as a "deluxe ocean view" room because it is on the top floor

1223 is in the Aloha Tower (Back Tower). If they can call 1223 Deluxe Ocean View, I can see the day coming when there will only be Deluxe Ocean View.

So it does appear that DRI has changed some units from Type 1B (Ocean View) to Type 1C (Deluxe Ocean View).

See Map of KBC Here.

http://tug2.com/ResortImages/Hawaii/Maui/embka_fp.gif

I have sent information to DRI that they asked for. But as of today, I have not heard back from them.



Walt

This is my Disclosure from 2001.



EXHIBIT ''1''

UNIT TYPES AND UNITS IN THE PROGRAM

There are currently a total of 106 units in the program. There are also cunently five types of units in this Program, as follows:

One Bedroom Units:

Type 1A: Scenic View: One bedroom, with sleeping accommodations for up to four (4) and a view of the countryside.


Type 1B: Ocean View: One bedroom, with sleeping accommodation for up to four (4) and a Partial ocean view.

Type IC: Deluxe Ocean View: One bedroom, with sleeping accommodations for up to four (4) and a deluxe ocean view.


Two Bedroom Units:

Type II: Ocean/Scenic View: Two bedrooms, with sleeping accommodations for up to six (6) persons and scenic view of the ocean and the countryside.

Deluxe Suites:

Type III:

Two Bedroom Units: Deluxe Ocean View: Two bedrooms, with sleeping accommodations for up to slx (6) persons and an oceanfront location.

ln accordance with Section 3.C.2, the relative value of each unit Type, in decreasing order, is as follows:

I. Type III
2. Type II
3. Type 1C
4. Type 1B
5. Type 1A

Example units number of Type 1C Deluxe Ocean Viewon the 9th Floor of the Ohana Tower.

904, 905, 906, and 907. These are Pool Side Units on the Ohana Tower.

908, 909, 910, 911, and 912. These are Ocean Front Units.

913. This is a North Side Unit.

Example unit numbers of Type 1B Ocean View on the 9th Floor of the Ohana Tower.

901. 902, 903, 941, and 942. These are Pool Side Units between the Ohana and Aloha Towers.

914, 915, and 916. These are North Side Units in the Ohana Tower.

917, 918, 919, 920, 921, and 922. These are North Side units between the Ohana Tower and the Aloha Tower (Back Tower).

923, and 940. These are Units in the Aloha Tower.

Example unit numbers of Type 1A Scenic View on the 9th Floor of the Ohana Tower.

930, 931, 932, and 933. These are back side of Aloha Tower.

Example of unit numbers of Type II 2 bedroom Scenic and Ocean View on the 9th Floor in the Aloha Tower.

923, 929, 934, and 939. These are 2 bedroom in the Aloha Tower.

Example of unit number of Type III 2 Bedroom Deluxe Ocean View OceanFront Units on the 12th floor.

1208 and 1212. These are 2 Bedrooms in the Ohana Tower that are on the 12th Floor. I have not seen these units. Has anyone seen these units? Are they the same inside the unit as 923, 929, 932, and 939 units? Does location (Ocean Front) make it the Deluxe Ocean View?

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

Rooms 1208, 1212

While I haven't seen units 1208 & 1212, you can tell by the building architecture that they are two bedroom corner units, that directly face the ocean. That must be a one bedroom in the middle. I have been up to the 12th floor and there are three doors for the room entrances facing the ocean - one on each corner, and one in the middle. Because the room on my deed is one that also faces the oceanfront, I expect the resort to grant me that same view. They always have until DRI took over. In fact on two different occasions I was placed on the northwest corner - X12, at my request.

It will be interesting to see how DRI explains theirselves on this issue.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I haven't seen these units, but I believe they are the two bedrooms. Because the room on my deed directly faces the ocean just as 1208 and 1210do, I expect to be in the front when I use my week. Up until DRI took over I always was placed in an oceanfront unit. It will be interesting to see how DRI explains theirselves on this issue.

I think that if you read your deed and the timeshare program documents that are integrated into the deed, it will very clearly state that the unit identification on the deed is for inventory control purposes only and that your ownership of that deed does not confer any specific rights to that unit as compared with any other owner.

You should also find that your ownership of that unit grants you rights to reserve certain type, and that there is somewhere a listing of the rooms that corresponded to that ownership type at the time your unit was sold. Those assignments of rooms to type are not going to change. Along the way, as added floors of the hotel were converted to timeshare additional rooms would have been added to your unit type, and you gain the right to reserve those units, and the owners of those units gain the right to reserve your unit.

That is how all floating systems work and that is certainly what is in my deed at Po'ipu.

****

If you want to know what reservation rights you have, it's in the deed. No matter what you might say about how you think things should work, if the deed and timeshare program documents say something else that is going to control.

Before you can determine if you're being screwed, you need to go back and look at what the deed and timeshare program documents said at the time you bought, modified with any added agreements that may have been granted you at the time of sale and recorded in your purchase documents. Then you look to see what is different now from what was in the documents at the time you bought (not what you think you bought, what the documents you signed on the day you bought say).

Whatever that difference is is ripe for complaint. But if there isn't any difference in what you are getting now and what you signed up for, you are complaining about losing something you never really owned anyway.

****

For myself, it didn't take too much thinking to realize that as Poipu sold out its inventory of ocean front units, it was going to require increasing work to get those ocean front units.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I just realized what could be the big impact of Club operations on avaialability of view category units.

****

Before the Club was present at the resorts, an owner who didn't want to use their week at the resort and wanted to elsewhere had only one choice - deposit the unit into an exchange company. Since the resort has no obligation to put exchangers into any particular room category, exhcangers usually got what was left over after owner requests were met.

With the club starting up, owners who join the Club put their unit into the Club when they don't want to stay at the resort. But the club doesn't get a generic, whatever is available, in return. The club gets the view category the member surrenders.

Thus without the Club, when ocean front owners decide to stay elsewhere, there is an increase in ocean front availability for those owners how remain. When an ocean front owner who has joined the Club decides to stay elsewhere, however, another the Club ends with a unit in that owners view category.

Thus Club operations likely do cause a significant drop in overall availability. That's not a result of taking inventory away from people who already had it; it's the result of the fact that Club presence reduces the number of incoming non-owners who can be assigned to any view category.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I Understand What You Are Saying But...

I think that if you read your deed and the timeshare program documents that are integrated into the deed, it will very clearly state that the unit identification on the deed is for inventory control purposes only and that your ownership of that deed does not confer any specific rights to that unit as compared with any other owner.

You should also find that your ownership of that unit grants you rights to reserve certain type, and that there is somewhere a listing of the rooms that corresponded to that ownership type at the time your unit was sold. Those assignments of rooms to type are not going to change. Along the way, as added floors of the hotel were converted to timeshare additional rooms would have been added to your unit type, and you gain the right to reserve those units, and the owners of those units gain the right to reserve your unit.

That is how all floating systems work and that is certainly what is in my deed at Po'ipu.

****

If you want to know what reservation rights you have, it's in the deed. No matter what you might say about how you think things should work, if the deed and timeshare program documents say something else that is going to control.

Before you can determine if you're being screwed, you need to go back and look at what the deed and timeshare program documents said at the time you bought, modified with any added agreements that may have been granted you at the time of sale and recorded in your purchase documents. Then you look to see what is different now from what was in the documents at the time you bought (not what you think you bought, what the documents you signed on the day you bought say).

Whatever that difference is is ripe for complaint. But if there isn't any difference in what you are getting now and what you signed up for, you are complaining about losing something you never really owned anyway.

****

For myself, it didn't take too much thinking to realize that as Poipu sold out its inventory of ocean front units, it was going to require increasing work to get those ocean front units.

These units were called Deluxe Ocean View on 1/24/2001.

904, 905, 906, and 907. These are Pool Side Units on the Ohana Tower.

908, 909, 910, 911, and 912. These are Ocean Front Units.

913. This is a North Side Unit.

According to the Disclosure I should be getting a Deluxe Ocean View. So I should get no less than these units on all floors

So can DRI put me in what were considered Ocean View on 1/24/2001 just by calling them Deluxe Ocean View now? Such as 923 or 916.

Also wasn't the reason that Deeds were given to the timeshare weeks buyers, so that the Developer could not over sell certain units like Ocean Front Units. Why would I get a Deed for a Ocean Front Unit and not a Pool Side Unit, Ocean View, or even a Scenic View Unit?

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

Owner Inventory is Excluded from Club Owners

My understanding is 70% of KBC is deeded owners, and we have our own inventory. I am a deeded owner. They cannot put a club member in the owner inventory of rooms.

If you read the various reviews all over the travel sites, you will see for certain that DRI is putting traders and visitors who book their timeshare perk in oceanfront rooms.

THIS IS WRONG!!!!

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

And another thing.....

If 70% of the inventory is owners, and Walt made his reservation 12 months in advance, why was there even an issue?

Who do you think DRI is placing in those exclusive rooms?

No doubt for sure DRI is aggressively targeting deeded owners trying to brainwash them with converting their deeds into the Trust. But as long as there is deeded owner inventory of rooms, they should not be placing traders, club members visitors, etc. in our exclusive owner inventory of units.

I also took a look at the map I was presented when I bought my unit. The deluxe oceanview rooms were units x04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12.

Nothing on the north side - just oceanfront and the area in the front wing overlooking the pool and ocean.

I will take all of this with me with my next visit if this is not resolved before then.