Ka'anapali Beach Club Owner's Problem

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

We are using our owner's week at Ka'anapali Beach Club from Jan 10 to Jan 17 and we traded into the KBC from Jan. 17 to Jan 24.

We arrived about 12:15 pm. I was able to check in but the room was not available until 4:00 pm. That was alright since we wanted to take a ride up the North Coast of West Maui.

We got back at 4:00 pm and found out we had been given an Deluxe Ocean View Unit over looking the Pool.

While this may sound great. The Unit number is 406 and it is a great unit with a great view. But it is not what we paid for.

We became owners about 6 years ago. We have a deed to an Ocean Deluxe FRONT Unit.

At the time we bought at the KBC there were 3 types of 1 bedroom units.

Mountain View

Ocean View

Deluxe Ocean Front View.

Each unit have a different price with the Deluxe Ocean Front costing several Thousand Dollars more.

We made our reservation in Jan. 2008 for Jan 2009.

At Check in, KBC told me that they do not have Deluxe Ocean FRONT units anymore. Deluxe Ocean Front Units and Ocean View units are now called Deluxe Ocean View Units.

Well, I am not the type of person that will just say "OK." I only want what I paid for and KBC is telling me there are NO Ocean Deluxe Front Units available.

Customer service was no help yet. I will be talking to management and also I have a 8:30 tour scheduled.

I will be posting how they handle the problem.

Walt

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

We are using our owner's week at Ka'anapali Beach Club from Jan 10 to Jan 17 and we traded into the KBC from Jan. 17 to Jan 24.

We arrived about 12:15 pm. I was able to check in but the room was not available until 4:00 pm. That was alright since we wanted to take a ride up the North Coast of West Maui.

We got back at 4:00 pm and found out we had been given an Deluxe Ocean View Unit over looking the Pool.

While this may sound great. The Unit number is 406 and it is a great unit with a great view. But it is not what we paid for.

We became owners about 6 years ago. We have a deed to an Ocean Deluxe FRONT Unit.

At the time we bought at the KBC there were 3 types of 1 bedroom units.

Mountain View

Ocean View

Deluxe Ocean Front View.

Each unit have a different price with the Deluxe Ocean Front costing several Thousand Dollars more.

We made our reservation in Jan. 2008 for Jan 2009.

At Check in, KBC told me that they do not have Deluxe Ocean FRONT units anymore. Deluxe Ocean Front Units and Ocean View units are now called Deluxe Ocean View Units.

Well, I am not the type of person that will just say "OK." I only want what I paid for and KBC is telling me there are NO Ocean Deluxe Front Units available.

Customer service was no help yet. I will be talking to management and also I have a 8:30 tour scheduled.

I will be posting how they handle the problem.

Walt

Unbelievalbe........and I don't mean your story......I mean that any DRI managed resort that feels they have the right to change/modify an owners deeded view to fit their needs.

I'm hoping his isn't some new DRI policy but just a renegade resort manager making a very bad decision. If it's DRI backing this play, then it's a new all time low for DRI owners. Something like this would firmly put DRI on equal footing with the way Wastegate views it's owners.

Like you, I'd be pissed. Pissed enough that there's not way I'd take this lying down. I'm not certain what owners could do but I'd be talking to someone well versed in real estate law.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Who controls the HOA? If it is DRI, then do the owners have enough votes to take control? This is an absurd abuse of power by management. Management needs to be tamed.

Also, you might want to file a complaint with the Hawaii Real Estate Commission, or whatever agency oversees timeshare in Hawaii, and with the Consumer Protection Division of the Hawaii AG's office.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Who controls the HOA? If it is DRI, then do the owners have enough votes to take control? This is an absurd abuse of power by management. Management needs to be tamed.

Also, you might want to file a complaint with the Hawaii Real Estate Commission, or whatever agency oversees timeshare in Hawaii, and with the Consumer Protection Division of the Hawaii AG's office.

I believe this resort has a large number of units that are in a trust, who's trust manager answers to DRI. If that's the case, you know how the trust manager is going to vote that block of units if anything needs to be changed. This is one of the reasons I'm against trust based ownership. The developer has to be trustworthy in the fact they'll place the owners interest ahead of the developers. Something I doubt would happen with great regularity.

Still, trust or no trust.], if someone owns a deeded week that has a stated view that they were charged a premium for and, that unit is not in any trust, I don't believe that any management company could materially make changes to that deed legally. I believe if complaints are filed in the right places that management can be forced to toe the line.

[Jimbo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jimbo]

DRI points chart

I looked up the DRI points chart and it has the following categories for a 1 BR:

Scenic View (Mtn)
Ocean View
Deluxe Ocean View

Are they saying that the "Deluxe Ocean Front" you were deeded into is now combined with what? The Ocean View? Then why does the DRI points chart still have the Ocean View units as 3K to 4.5K less than the Deluxe Ocean View rooms.

As I see it, there may still be three categories and the names have changed with DRI. If when you purchased you were told of which rooms were Deluxe Ocean FRONT, you should confirm that. Our resort in Hawaii had communicated that to us and we could always use that to confirm nothing material has changed even if they decide to change the name of the category.

Hope you find resolution quickly. It would be a bummer to ruin a great Hawaii vacation.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

This was from my post of TUG

I looked up the DRI points chart and it has the following categories for a 1 BR:

Scenic View (Mtn)
Ocean View
Deluxe Ocean View

Are they saying that the "Deluxe Ocean Front" you were deeded into is now combined with what? The Ocean View? Then why does the DRI points chart still have the Ocean View units as 3K to 4.5K less than the Deluxe Ocean View rooms.

As I see it, there may still be three categories and the names have changed with DRI. If when you purchased you were told of which rooms were Deluxe Ocean FRONT, you should confirm that. Our resort in Hawaii had communicated that to us and we could always use that to confirm nothing material has changed even if they decide to change the name of the category.

Hope you find resolution quickly. It would be a bummer to ruin a great Hawaii vacation.

I am not a Club Onwer

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_Oglodyte
Yes. It's critical to know whether this is an owner reservation or a Club reservation. If Walt joined the Club, then what is on the deed is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was reserved through the Club.

But if this is an unconverted or unaffilated week, then the reservation rights should be unchanged from what was purchased.

I am still working on the problem. DRI is saying there was never a Deluxe Ocean Front unit.

I got a copy of my contract.

I bought on 1/24/01.

There were 3 Suite types at the time.

Ohana (Deluxe Ocean View) These were Ocean Front units only.

Aloha (Ocean View). These were Pool Units with an Ocean View

LoKahi (Scenic View) View on the Mountains.

They now have Deluxe Ocean View only which includes the Ocean View (The units overlooking the Pool) and Ocean Front. And they say that they can put me in any Deluxe Ocean View Unit which may or may not be Ocean Front.


I still don't know who gets the Ocean Front Units.




Walt

PS. there will be moving me to an Ocean Front Unit on Thursday. But I still don't know it in 2011 they will give me what I paid extra for which was an Ocean Front Unit.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I would think that you will need to find wording in your contract that clearly states the description of Deluxe Ocean View as ocean front. If you can find that then I believe DRI will have to back down.

Since this resort was not originally sold by DRI, it is possible that they do not know the exact conditions contracts and views were sold under. I have to admit that if I saw a description that listed a unit as Deluxe Ocean View, I would not automatically equate that with an ocean facing unit only. Ocean view to me does not mean ocean front so, it is possible that DRI needs to actually see that those contracts were sold as ocean front.

OK, I know I'm really stretching to give DRI the benefit of the doubt when I really don't want to but, I can see this as a possiblity. The real test will come if you find wording to the effect that Deluxe Ocean View means Ocean Front and how DRI resonds when presented that evidence.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I would think that you will need to find wording in your contract that clearly states the description of Deluxe Ocean View as ocean front. If you can find that then I believe DRI will have to back down.

Since this resort was not originally sold by DRI, it is possible that they do not know the exact conditions contracts and views were sold under. I have to admit that if I saw a description that listed a unit as Deluxe Ocean View, I would not automatically equate that with an ocean facing unit only. Ocean view to me does not mean ocean front so, it is possible that DRI needs to actually see that those contracts were sold as ocean front.

OK, I know I'm really stretching to give DRI the benefit of the doubt when I really don't want to but, I can see this as a possiblity. The real test will come if you find wording to the effect that Deluxe Ocean View means Ocean Front and how DRI resonds when presented that evidence.

I have to say that from how the inventory control system has been described to me by DRI staff I am skeptical that DRI did something such as that unkowingly. For that to occur, the schema by which rooms are linked to view categories would have to be changed, and that relationship is central to how inventory is managed at the resort. It's not something that could be changed inadvertently.

The simplest explanation I can proffer is that the Walt's account has been converted to a Club account, so what is being offered to him is what is offered to Club members. The Club essentially operates as it's own timeshare system, and it can make whatever rules it wants for the inventory at the resort that is assigned to the Club.

++++++

If you're still at the resort Walt, you should also get a copy of the current Timeshare Program documents for the resort; that should be available at the Sales Office. There will actually be two timeshare program documents; one for the Hawaii' Trust and one for the Ka'anapali Beach Club. You want the one for the Beach Club, since that is what governs the entire resort.

That document should describe exactly the classes of units that are at the resort. In that respect it should synch with the classes described in the documents associated with the original purchase of your week. it won't match exactly, because back in 2001 about half of the unit was being held as hotel property and hadn't been added to the timeshare program. So there will be changes to accommodate the added inventory. But the usage rights for your unit should have stayed intact as the new inventory was added.

[d0ugie_fresh Member Find all posts View Profile Close d0ugie_fresh]

Time to take action!!

Everyone who is a deeded owner needs to join together so we can vote in an OWNER majority on the board. Currently DRI has the majority and overrides most decisions that the owners have made. Of course the owners are looking out for fellow owners and DRI is only interested in making more money for the company.

One of the board members, Bill Burns, has a web site he tries to manage in his spare time. He has sent out a series of emails to people who are registered. If you're an owner and are interested in joining, please visit:

http://www.kaanapalibeachresortowners.com/dnn/

Also, if you PM me, I'll forward you his email address so he can add you to his distribution list.

I believe deeded owners are the majority, which means the more of us that contact other members and if we all work together, we can fix this mess that we call Ka'anapali Beach Club!

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I have to say that from how the inventory control system has been described to me by DRI staff I am skeptical that DRI did something such as that unkowingly. For that to occur, the schema by which rooms are linked to view categories would have to be changed, and that relationship is central to how inventory is managed at the resort. It's not something that could be changed inadvertently.

The simplest explanation I can proffer is that the Walt's account has been converted to a Club account, so what is being offered to him is what is offered to Club members. The Club essentially operates as it's own timeshare system, and it can make whatever rules it wants for the inventory at the resort that is assigned to the Club.

++++++

If you're still at the resort Walt, you should also get a copy of the current Timeshare Program documents for the resort; that should be available at the Sales Office. There will actually be two timeshare program documents; one for the Hawaii' Trust and one for the Ka'anapali Beach Club. You want the one for the Beach Club, since that is what governs the entire resort.

That document should describe exactly the classes of units that are at the resort. In that respect it should synch with the classes described in the documents associated with the original purchase of your week. it won't match exactly, because back in 2001 about half of the unit was being held as hotel property and hadn't been added to the timeshare program. So there will be changes to accommodate the added inventory. But the usage rights for your unit should have stayed intact as the new inventory was added.

Granted I was searching for excuses......even a feable excuse.

The thing is, Club acounts seem to act differently at different resorts. The best example I can give is at the Suite's at Polo Towers and the Villa's at Polo Towers. At the Villa's, our unit is a floating week and the points are deposited into our account each year automatically. With the Suite's, it's a fixed week unit specific ownership which is autmatically reserved in our name every year. I must call an release the unit to THE Club to receive the points.

Now, having written this out, I believe you may be the closest to the problem. If Walt's week is a floating deeded week, I can see DRI getting him confused as a member of THE Club and lumping him into a pool that allows them to change the view he paid for. I can also see DRI assuming that they could do this with all owners regardless of their affiliation with THE Club or, as confusing as a multi-level system can be, reservationist as the resort getting confused about who goes where, especially when the same room designation can mean different views, depending on whether an owner was a fixed week/fixed view owner, floating deeded week not in THE Club with a fixed view, THE Club member or a member of one of DRI's trust set ups.

There appears to be so many possibilities at this one resort that confusion is bound to happen. Considering that there are differences (as I understand it) between Europe collection, US resorts, floating, fixed, trust and club owners, this system is set up and primed to make mistakes that are bound to make owners unhappy and destroy the motto of simplicity.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I am not a KBC Owner!

I am not a Club Onwer

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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_R_Oglodyte
Yes. It's critical to know whether this is an owner reservation or a Club reservation. If Walt joined the Club, then what is on the deed is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what was reserved through the Club.

But if this is an unconverted or unaffilated week, then the reservation rights should be unchanged from what was purchased.

I am still working on the problem. DRI is saying there was never a Deluxe Ocean Front unit.

I got a copy of my contract.

I bought on 1/24/01.

There were 3 Suite types at the time.

Ohana (Deluxe Ocean View) These were Ocean Front units only.

Aloha (Ocean View). These were Pool Units with an Ocean View

LoKahi (Scenic View) View on the Mountains.

They now have Deluxe Ocean View only which includes the Ocean View (The units overlooking the Pool) and Ocean Front. And they say that they can put me in any Deluxe Ocean View Unit which may or may not be Ocean Front.


I still don't know who gets the Ocean Front Units.




Walt

PS. there will be moving me to an Ocean Front Unit on Thursday. But I still don't know it in 2011 they will give me what I paid extra for which was an Ocean Front Unit.

As stated above I am not KBC Club owner. I am a weeks owner. Yet if I get on DRI website it states I own week 51, 1 bedroom Dix Ocean, and I have 8000 points list.

Why would it be listed as 8000 when I am not a Club member?

The Deluxe Ocean View units are now listed by the KBC as all Pool Side units, all Front units, and all North Side Units in the front or Ohona Tower from the 4th floor to the top floor.

The lower floors have the front units listed as Deluxe Ocean View with some of the Pool Side and North Side as Deluxe Ocean Views.

This was not how it was listed in 1/24/2001 when I bought at the Embassy.

When I ask who gets the Ocean Front Units and how do you get them they would not give me an answer.

I have ask the KBC for the what units were assigned to the Ohona View in my contract. I have all of this information at home but it doesn't help me here.

Does anyone have any information about what units were assigned to the Ohona View back in 1/24/2001 or before?

Walt

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

As stated above I am not KBC owner. Yet if I get on DRI website it states I own week 51, 1 bedroom Dix Ocean, and I have 8000 points list.

Why would it be listed as 8000 when I am not a Club member?

I increasingly believe that your account is screwed up at DRI and in their records they have added you to the Club.

I assume that you have contacted Ohana at the resort and they can't get it straightened out. If you haven't done so, that should be your first step. You should go to reservations, give them your account number, and ask if you show up as deeded owner or as a Club member. Don't ask the front desk to do this; do this in reservations.

Otherwise, I think the fastest way for you to get this straightened out is to post a message one the BBS at the DRI website.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I would also suggest making a personal visit to the Hawaii Real Estate Commission and the Consumer Protection Division of the Hawaii Attorney General while you are in the islands. Start a complaint through the process in person.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Ocean Front versus Ocean View:

I found this Question and Answer on the Ka'anapali Beach Resort Owner's Web Site.

It appears other owners of the Deluxe Ocean Front are having the same problem. They also paid extra for the right to have an Ocean Front unit.

Walt

Ocean Front versus Ocean View:

There are many owners that were manipulated into spending more money to get Deluxe Ocean Front rather than the Ocean View units. Several of these owners can produce maps that were issued when they bought. There is a great deal of anger that Sunterra decided to redraw the map and to designate many units that could have been purchased for far less as “Ocean View” and to drop the Deluxe Ocean Front. Would you respond to this complaint?

A.
Sunterra’s Response

The Developer has never sold a view classified as strictly Ocean Front. Rather, two views, those being Ocean View and Ocean Front, were blended into one view that has always been known as the Deluxe Ocean View category. This is further confirmed by a review of the Disclosure Statement which sets out the different views sold by the Developer. You will note that Scenic View, Ocean View and Deluxe Ocean View have always been the view categories offered under the Timeshare Program.



The Developer has never upgraded a view category of any unit once assigned to the Timeshare Program. It is however true that as the original floors initially intended to be sold under the Timeshare Program expanded up onto the higher floors, that the Deluxe Ocean View category increased as the building makes its ascent upwards. This decision was based upon the fact that the highest floor of the Tower rises above any other building around it giving one a view of the ocean that is competitive with any hotel/resort on the Ka’anapali shoreline within the same view category

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Walt - that changes the complexion. If you havent' done so already, I would follow Carolinian's excellent advice. I also replied to this post at TUG.