Ka'anapali Beach Club Owner's Problem

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

If 70% of the inventory is owners, and Walt made his reservation 12 months in advance, why was there even an issue?

Who do you think DRI is placing in those exclusive rooms?

No doubt for sure DRI is aggressively targeting deeded owners trying to brainwash them with converting their deeds into the Trust. But as long as there is deeded owner inventory of rooms, they should not be placing traders, club members visitors, etc. in our exclusive owner inventory of units.

I also took a look at the map I was presented when I bought my unit. The deluxe oceanview rooms were units x04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12.

Nothing on the north side - just oceanfront and the area in the front wing overlooking the pool and ocean.

I will take all of this with me with my next visit if this is not resolved before then.

You're back to mixing together two separate items that need to be kept separate.

The first is putting owners into rooms that match their ownership category. Walt did not have any trouble reserving a room that corresponded with his ownership category. (And please note that I am not saying Walt's ownership has not been diluted. I am merely saying that he had no problems making a reservation corresponding to his ownership.)

The second matter is the assignment of rooms within that view category. Walt has acknowledged that he did not put in a request for a specific room. It's quite likely that since he didn't put in a specific room request, the rooms he wanted went to other people who specifically requested those rooms.

As regards DRI putting people into deluxe ocean view units, DRI does own some percentage of those units. Since DRI owns a percentage of those units, why is there a problem if DRI puts people in those units?

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The more pertinent issue is whether that oceanfront unit category has been diluted over the years. That is really the crux of the argument that Walt needs to press.

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There seems to be a running assumption in this thread that there is a formal category of rooms called deluxe ocean front or something similar, and that the resort manages and tracks that subset of rooms with some special set of rules. Prior to the Club these units were set aside for a special subset of owners within "deluxe ocean view" and now DRI is alleged to be getting preference for this set of rooms.

There really is no information to support that belief, and it is inconsistent with how the reservations system at the Hawaii resorts has been described to me. The resort simply sees a pool of rooms classed as deluxe ocean view and a corresponding pool of owners who have rights to reserve those deluxe ocean view rooms. A portion of that inventory is peeled off for the Club, but that simply matches the portion of that pool that happens to be owned by the Club.

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

I understand that but.....

I always request an oceanfront room when I make my reservation. However in 2008 my request was not met.

Why was it never a problem until DRI? And yes, according to the new map DRI is using, they are converting what once was defined as the oceanview category into the deluxe oceanview category.

If this continues, anything with an oceanview will be deluxe oceanview.

But how do they determine who is going to get in those front units?

Again, I did specifically request oceanfront, and for the first time since I bought into the resort, it was not granted.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I always request an oceanfront room when I make my reservation. However in 2008 my request was not met.

Why was it never a problem until DRI? And yes, according to the new map DRI is using, they are converting what once was defined as the oceanview category into the deluxe oceanview category.

If this continues, anything with an oceanview will be deluxe oceanview.

But how do they determine who is going to get in those front units?

Again, I did specifically request oceanfront, and for the first time since I bought into the resort, it was not granted.

I've written what I know about that quite a few times, including in this thread. I've never reserved at Ka'anapali so I can't vouch for that resort. But the person I spoke with at Po'ipu also supervised Ka'anapali and said that the procedure was the same at Ka'anapali.

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I believe that not once in this thread have you referenced anything regarding what is written in your deed and the timeshare program documents.

I think you need to spend some time with those documents before you start alleging nefarious behavior. Those documents define what the rights and responsibilities are for both parties. If you expect your complaints to be taken seriously by DRI, I think it behooves you to know exactly how and to what extent you believe they have breached their legal obligations.

I bet that if you take the time to read your documents carefully (the Disclosure Statement and the Deed) are the most significant items, I'm almost dead certain you will find the following:

• a description of the different ownership categories and what the rights are for each owner in each view category.
• a statement that your deed is only for inventory purposes and does not confer any special rights to reserve that unit vis a vis all other owners in your view category
• some language linking your ownership to the defined view categories associated with your deed.
• a listing of which timeshare units are associated with which specific view categories for all units in the timeshare program at the time your unit was purchased.
• a description of the procedures for making reservation requests, including a statement that any assignments to a specific room may be changed or modified by the resort any time prior to check-in
• a description of the procedures that will be followed when and if the developer elects to add more units to the timeshare program and how the view categories will be established for that additional inventory.

If you spend some time with the documents that you signed at the time you bought your unit, I bet you'll find that almost everything that DRI/Sunterra has done are things that that you agreed they could do when you signed on the dotted line(s).

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

What is DRI doing then?

I am not alleging any kind of behavior. I am merely telling you what I have experienced and my opinion based on the various comments that I have read on the travel websites. You too can view these comments as well on sites such as Yelp and Tripadvisor. Why should an owner of a deluxe oceanview unit be placed on the side overlooking dumpsters while a visitor touring the resort be upgraded to the oceanfront?

There is no way to justify giving the best rooms for perks or upgrades, if this is what they are doing. This may or may not be the case, but if you would read some of the travel website reviews, you would probably make the same conclusion.

You seem quite defensive of DRI. I am sure you would feel differently had you had this experience.

My deed states I own a floating week, deluxe ocean view, and my map shows Rooms 04-12. These rooms are the direct oceanfront and the side by the pool in the front wing. Again nothing on the northside, and nothing beyond rooms 04-12, even on the 12th floor.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I am not alleging any kind of behavior. I am merely telling you what I have experienced and my opinion based on the various comments that I have read on the travel websites. You too can view these comments as well on sites such as Yelp and Tripadvisor. Why should an owner of a deluxe oceanview unit be placed on the side overlooking dumpsters while a visitor touring the resort be upgraded to the oceanfront?

There is no way to justify giving the best rooms for perks or upgrades, if this is what they are doing. This may or may not be the case, but if you would read some of the travel website reviews, you would probably make the same conclusion.

You seem quite defensive of DRI. I am sure you would feel differently had you had this experience.

My deed states I own a floating week, deluxe ocean view, and my map shows Rooms 04-12. These rooms are the direct oceanfront and the side by the pool in the front wing. Again nothing on the northside, and nothing beyond rooms 04-12, even on the 12th floor.

I've merely been trying to encourage you to begin your analysis of what is happening by starting at the ground level.

In essence, you are alleging that DRI is breaking the timeshare program established for the resort. That being the case, don't you think your analysis and thinking should be based on what the program says?

But I do think I've contributed all I can to this thread.

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

Kbc

Sure Steve, thanks for providing what you know.

I just cannot comprehend nor justify why a deluxe oceanview owner would be placed in a room that has not been renovated, and overlooks the parking lot and dumpsters (Yelp.com) while another who is not an owner or even a club member is upgraded from garden view to deluxe oceanview just for attending their 5 day timeshare presentation package (Tripadvisor.com)

Perhaps it is just a local management issue at the resort itself that DRI will look into and assure the owners will not happen again.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

You need more than your deed. If the sales paperwork doesn't list what units are in the view you bought but just a general discription, you may be out of luck.

This is exactly why I like fixed units and fixed weeks. You can still make it a floater but then you don't know what you get either but mostly you do and don't have to worry about the view and spoil your vacation with so much frustration.

The developers say that floating is more flexible and better but it is better for them as they can do as they please and the buyer must hope for the best. The problem is that not all units have a good view.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Sure Steve, thanks for providing what you know.

I just cannot comprehend nor justify why a deluxe oceanview owner would be placed in a room that has not been renovated, and overlooks the parking lot and dumpsters (Yelp.com) while another who is not an owner or even a club member is upgraded from garden view to deluxe oceanview just for attending their 5 day timeshare presentation package (Tripadvisor.com)

Perhaps it is just a local management issue at the resort itself that DRI will look into and assure the owners will not happen again.

Did the deluxe oceanview owner have in hand a confirmation that said their reservation was for a "deluxe ocean view unit". Please read that carefully - what did the reservation say, not what do they own.

If the timeshare program at Ka'anapali operates similar to the one at Po'ipu an owner can be given a lower quality room at the time a reservation is made if there is no space in the owners view category, the owner is willing to accept the downgrade, and scheduling allows someone in the downgraded category to be bumped to a higher grade.

If the person held an actual confirmation for a deluxe ocean view, but was put in something lesser they have a valid point. If the person accepted a lower confirmation hoping they could upgrade that's a different story.

I have also learned to be extremely skeptical about stories that people post at sites such as TripAdvisor and even here at TUG and TS4Ms. Too many people have axes to grind or they somehow leave out some critical information.

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

Owners Receive Written Confirmation

Each time I have made a reservation for my week, I receive a written confirmation showing deluxe oceanview with the dates it is reserved. I request the oceanfront, which has always been granted up until this last year under DRI.

I did look at my file and the DOV (deluxe oceanview) category is mapped out as rooms 04-12. So I would have to assume that I would be placed in one of these rooms if I am told at the time I make my reservation that there is availability in the DOV category. However they (DRI) have added more rooms to this category that were not deluxe oceanview when I became an owner.

It appears that they are blending the two views together, and that someday there may only be an oceanview.

But who is getting these exclusive rooms in front of the building, and how do they determine who will get them?

And who is Peter Chocholak, the timeshareguru, who proudly boasts his Platinum Elite Status and that he has received oceanfront rooms at a 100% success rate?

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

From Patrick Duffy of DRI

Dr. Walt,
Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you and clarify what you purchased in 2001.
In viewing all the relevant paperwork you purchased as detailed;
Exhibit # 1
"One Bedroom Units"
1) Type 1C----Deluxe Ocean View----"One bedroom, with sleeping accommodations for up to four (4) persons and a deluxe ocean view." This is your Unit 611. There is NO use of the word "Front" within your purchase of Unit # 611.
If one were to buy in the "Deluxe Suites" they would be described in writing as;
1) Type III----Deluxe Ocean View---"Two bedrooms, with sleeping accommodations for up to six (6) persons and an oceanfront location".
As you, Sarah and I spoke. We wished we could accommodate your request, but in absolute fairness to all our members, each are revered, respected and fairly treated in every DRI interaction.
These are the purchase facts, in written form, and presented to you in 2001.
We thank you once again,


Patrick Duffy


I was just going to drop this and stop posting on Tug and here about this problem. But Patrick posted his email to me on DiamondResorts-owners@yahoogroups. He made it sound like I wanted special treatment. And all I wanted was what I bought. An Ocean Front Unit. I am really off now.

When I asked him, "Why did I buy at the Embassy on 1/24/2001?" he had no answer.

From my return email to Patrick.

As I asked you "Why would I buy at the Embassy if I could trade into it?" You had no anwer. Well, there is only one answer. Only because I knew I could not trade into an Ocean Front Unit was I willing to buy a week at The Embassy. I wanted to be able to stay in an Ocean Front Unit each time I used my Owner's week at The Embassy. That is why I bought at the Embassy. Who in there right mind would pay $13,900 for a non Ocean Front Unit and have a MF of $1045, when he/she could trade into the Embassy with another timeshare week that has a MF of $498 and a RCI exchange fee of $165?

Yes, the Disclosure is on there side. But, they also know that I and other Owners at the Embassy only bought because we we told we were buying Ocean Front units.

Walt

So Here is the copy of the email I sent to Patrick




Hi Patrick,

It was nice talking to you and Sarah. It is too bad that we could not agree that I bought an Ocean Front Unit. I understand that the disclosure was written to protect SunTerra's butt. Which it does. But I also know how the week was sold to me. (as an Ocean Front Unit). And I know you do too. I am not the only one that said they bought Ocean Front. Why would that be?

As I asked you "Why would I buy at the Embassy if I could trade into it?" You had no anwer. Well, there is only one answer. Only because I knew I could not trade into an Ocean Front Unit was I willing to buy a week at The Embassy. I wanted to be able to stay in an Ocean Front Unit each time I used my Owner's week at The Embassy. That is why I bought at the Embassy. Who in there right mind would pay $13,900 for a non Ocean Front Unit and have a MF of $1045, when he/she could trade into the Embassy with another timeshare week that has a MF of $498 and a RCI exchange fee of $165?

I will not be posting again on TUG or TimeshareForums about my problem with KBC and DRI.

However, I would like you to look at the pictures of the Ocean Front Unit, the Pool Side Unit and the North Side Unit and tell me that they are all the same. I know that you can not do this. But you must also know that I am telling the truth when I say, I was sold and bought an Ocean Front Unit.

I also think that an owner that gets his request in between 10 month and 12 months should have a unit number given to him on the confirmation sheet. You want the owners to trust you. But appearance is everything. If an owner makes a reservation one year in advance in a non holiday time and he/she gets less than expected, what are they to think? You are not being open about who gets the Ocean Front Units. The Week's owners feel that DRI does not want them at KBC. How do we really know that you are not giving the Ocean Front Units to The Club?

Your job is to push The Club. But DRI must earn our Trust first. And unless the week's owner trust you, you will not get them to buy into The Club. I never had a problem getting an Ocean Front Unit until the Embassy became part of DRI. Why?

Also please read my post on the DRI's web site. Diamond Resorts International®

I really think I think DRI needs to rethink the changes at KBC.


Walt

[dann2005 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dann2005]

So who gets the Oceanfront Units?

This does not explain how DRI determines who gets the oceanfront units, as they too are part of the deluxe oceanview inventory. Someone is in those units - my question is WHO and what can we do as owners to assure we will get in the front?

DRI says they assign the rooms two weeks before checkin - but how do they determine who is going to get the best rooms in this exclusive category?

No one so far has provided an answer, and from Walt says, not even DRI.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

This does not explain how DRI determines who gets the oceanfront units, as they too are part of the deluxe oceanview inventory. Someone is in those units - my question is WHO and what can we do as owners to assure we will get in the front?

DRI says they assign the rooms two weeks before checkin - but how do they determine who is going to get the best rooms in this exclusive category?

No one so far has provided an answer, and from Walt says, not even DRI.

I have explained how that is done at Po'ipu. From what Walt says, apparently it is done differently at Ka'anapali.

If you want an answer I suggest you do what I did, which is to discuss the issue in detail with whomever the person is at the resort that makes room assignments.

[Karilynn57 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Karilynn57]

TennisWalt-unless you have a 'fixed unit', then you have a floating unit and they put you where they put you........I'll bet you have floating.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

There Is Really More To It Than This!

It appears that DRI and Mr Cloobeck way of handling this problem is to not answer any emails, messages left on the phone, and letters from my lawyer. My next step is to file a complaint with the State of Hawaii. The complaint is about more than me not getting an Ocean Front unit.

Walt

TennisWalt-unless you have a 'fixed unit', then you have a floating unit and they put you where they put you........I'll bet you have floating.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

TennisWalt-unless you have a 'fixed unit', then you have a floating unit and they put you where they put you........I'll bet you have floating.

While they can put you where they want to with a floating week, it still has to be in the classification of the unit in which you own. An example would be that we own an ocean front unit at a particular resort in south Florida. While they can put me in any ocean front unit they want, it still has to be an ocean front unit. We paid a few thousand dollars more to always be in an ocean front unit vs and ocean view unit. FWIW this example in not one of the DRI units we own.

At issue for Walt is that the salesman told him he was purchasing an ocean front unit and Wal paid a premium for what he believes is an ocean front unit. The problem is, Sunterra, the former developer of this resort, never seems to have actually issued a deed with the words "ocean front." Instead the deeds appear to be issued as "Deluxe Ocean View" or "Ocean View" and, according to DRI, Deluxe Ocean View is defined as a 70% view of the ocean. That would not necessarily be an ocean front unit, which IMO would mean a 100% ocean facing unit.

Needless to say, Walt is at odds over the definition of the view he owns. History before DRI purchased Sunterra appears to say that, under Sunterra management, Deluxe Ocean View owners were always in ocean front units. Now DRI seems to be following the letter of the contract agreement, which they believe allows for any unit with a 70% view of the ocean to be appropriate for Deluxe Ocean View.

So while a resort can place you in any unit if you own a floating week, the unit MUST be in the classification that you purchased ie: ocean front, ocean view, garden/island view. The debate has been over the classification of the unit Walt owns.

Walt,

It appears to me that DRI has said all they're going to say on the matter. Continuing dialog when they're not going to budge is a waste of their time. If I were in DRI's position, I wouldn't be answering any of your E-mails, phone calls or letters either. If you intend to persue this, it's time to either take action or leave it alone. You'll have to decide which way you need to go.