NY's horse and buggy losing ground to animal rights group New York Horse and Buggy:

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

By Edith Honan of Reuters
http://news.msn.com/pop-culture/nys-...l-rights-group

The iconic New York Central Park horse and buggy ride is facing extinction with animal rights groups arguing horses do not belong in a congested, urban environment.

NEW YORK — The Central Park horse and buggy ride, for decades an iconic New York experience along with a Broadway show or a visit to the Empire State Building, is facing extinction.

Animal rights groups that had long argued horses do not belong in a congested, urban environment like midtown Manhattan suddenly find themselves with the upper hand.

Three weeks before the city's Nov. 5 mayoral election, the top candidates both support ending the practice and say they are open to alternatives, like replacing the horses with 8-seat electric cars.

"We are in the biggest, densest urban area in North America. It is not a place for horses. They are not meant to be in traffic jams," Bill de Blasio, the Democrat front-runner said at a press conference with New York Class, an animal rights group. "It's obvious. There are better alternatives."

Related: Wranglers say 'Hobbit' animals died on unsafe farm

But Christina Hansen, a carriage driver from Kentucky who has become the face of the industry in New York, says de Blasio and his Republican opponent Joe Lhota have it all wrong.

"It's all a bunch of hysteria," said Hansen, 33, as she guided her horse, Sara, through Manhattan traffic toward Central Park. "Their agenda is not animal welfare. It's animal rights."

"We bred horses to be powerful, willing partners in our civilization," said Hansen, who wore a long coat and feathered felt hat. "They project their own human emotions onto horses."

Like many New York classics, the Central Park carriage ride was immortalized in cinema. In Woody Allen's "Manhattan," Allen's character kisses his young girlfriend, played by Mariel Hemingway, in the back seat of a carriage. The image has been used again and again in TV series such as "Sex in the City," "Seinfeld" and "30 Rock."

"People come to us for the clip-clop," said Hansen. "Nobody wants to pet a fender."

'VERY NEW YORK'

Clinton Park Stables, home to 78 horses, sits on the far west side of Manhattan, a 20 minute ride from Central Park. It was built in the 1880s for street sweepers' horses.

"Because this is an urban stable, every square foot is used for something," said Hansen, as she led a tour past old-fashioned carriages, manufactured in Indiana, and a blacksmith working on a horseshoe along a row of 80-square-foot stalls.

The rules regulating the carriage industry are set by the city. Horses work no more than 9 hours a day, and every year spend at least five weeks on a farm. A veterinarian examines every horse twice a year and city inspectors visit regularly.

Hansen, a former doctoral student in French history, jokes that the stable has more inspections "than a day-care facility."

Over the last 30 years, three horses have died in traffic accidents - in 1985, 1990 and 2006. New York Class counts 19 accidents over the last two years that resulted in injury, but the carriage industry says most of them were minor incidents.

Related: Animal rights group sponsors alternative horse show

For Allie Feldman, executive director of New York Class, the solution is simple: Horses don't belong in traffic and an eco-friendly motorized alternative could catch on with tourists.

"It retains the romantic, classic, nostalgic feel that you would get in a horse-drawn carriage, only it doesn't have the smell, it doesn't have the cruelty and it's much more safe," she said. "We think we're offering a really fair compromise."

On Central Park South, across from the Plaza Hotel, Charlene Dertinger, 46, a native New Yorker celebrating a new job with a ride around the park, said it would be a shame to lose that tradition.

"I want to treat myself," said Dertinger. "I'm just going to sit by myself and enjoy the scenery."

A few strides away, Hazel and Terry Watkins, retired visitors from Australia, were disembarking from their trip, which included a stop at the John Lennon "Imagine" memorial.

"We felt very New York," said Hazel.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

When you have an ex-Sandinista guerrilla likely to become mayor in a place like New York, then the wingnuts come out of the woodwork trying to impose their will. There is nothing at all wrong with the horse and buggy rides. The alternative is probably the glue factory. Is that what these morons want for those horses?

Charleston. SC also has a popular tradition of horse and carriage rides, but I doubt the wingnuts would get to first base there, which is fortunate both for the horses and the tourists.

I already enjoy a trip to Charleston a heck of a lot more than one to NYC, and this would just make that more so.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

Horses don't belong in traffic and an eco-friendly motorized alternative could catch on with tourists.

Not with this tourist.

Although I would think a reasonable compromise is to only allow the carriage rides in Central Park and the streets around it. I've never gotten the appeal of riding in a carriage to Rockerfeller Plaza or Times Square or to your hotel or restaurant. *shudder* That just seems crazy to me. But we have horse drawn carriages around here that stick to select streets where the speed limit is low anyhow, and those are nice.

There is a large Amish population to the east of us, and it's undeniable that some people just refuse to slow down, meaning there are accidents involving horses much too often. Although it's my suspicion that a fair percentage of those are caused by guys deliberately trying to torment the Amish drivers.

NYC is no picnic. About 150-180 pedestrians and bikers are killed in a year, and over a thousand injured every summer month. Although there are fewer horses around, three horses killed in thirty years doesn't look so bad compared to that!

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Not with this tourist.

Although I would think a reasonable compromise is to only allow the carriage rides in Central Park and the streets around it. I've never gotten the appeal of riding in a carriage to Rockerfeller Plaza or Times Square or to your hotel or restaurant. *shudder* That just seems crazy to me. But we have horse drawn carriages around here that stick to select streets where the speed limit is low anyhow, and those are nice.

There is a large Amish population to the east of us, and it's undeniable that some people just refuse to slow down, meaning there are accidents involving horses much too often. Although it's my suspicion that a fair percentage of those are caused by guys deliberately trying to torment the Amish drivers.

NYC is no picnic. About 150-180 pedestrians and bikers are killed in a year, and over a thousand injured every summer month. Although there are fewer horses around, three horses killed in thirty years doesn't look so bad compared to that!

I think you are missing the central issue here. For the people raising the ruckus, the issue isn't about safety for horses. Their belief is that it is sinful for people to "own" animals and deploy them for human benefit.

This is just a skirmish in their particular holy war, and any movement on this front is "captured" ground. Raising an issue of "safety" is simply a battlefield tactic to gain sympathizers and disguise the fundamental agenda. A "solution" might be negotiated as you suggest, but they will simply await the next opportunity to overturn that agreement and eliminate the horses entirely. Then they will move on to the next front, which is likely to be something such as horse-racing.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

For the people raising the ruckus, the issue isn't about safety for horses. Their belief is that it is sinful for people to "own" animals and deploy them for human benefit.

I'm sure you are right in terms of the core protestors, however I also think a lot of the sympathizers don't buy into that belief, but are concerned about the safety of the animals. I am myself! So that's the aspect I tackled.

But mostly I just found it laughable that "an eco-friendly motorized alternative could catch on with tourists." I don't know what in the world sort of thing Allie Feldman is imagining, but I do know it would be nothing like the experience of touring in a horse-drawn carriage.

[jerrry94087 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close jerrry94087]

... I don't know what in the world sort of thing Allie Feldman is imagining, but I do know it would be nothing like the experience of touring in a horse-drawn carriage.

Maybe if it looked something like this: mechanical horse it won't be too bad.
Cover it with the brown skin and add some manure and it will make close to an authentic experience.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I'm sure you are right in terms of the core protestors, however I also think a lot of the sympathizers don't buy into that belief, but are concerned about the safety of the animals. I am myself! So that's the aspect I tackled.

But mostly I just found it laughable that "an eco-friendly motorized alternative could catch on with tourists." I don't know what in the world sort of thing Allie Feldman is imagining, but I do know it would be nothing like the experience of touring in a horse-drawn carriage.

I doubt that Allie Freedman believes that either. It's just a line to respond to the inevitable question. Looking at the website, the organization appears to be exactly what I was referring to in my original post.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Some of those people are hilarious. I was on Kartnerstrasse in Vienna one time and there were a couple of animal rights activists giving out their literature, when an elderly lady and her husband emerged from a shop. The lady was wearing a fur, and that set off the activists who immediately went over and started giving her grief. What was funny to watch was she gave it right back to them, at one point waving her fist just under the nose of one of them with an angry look on her face. I thought she was about to punch him. Meanwhile her husband stood there grinning ear to ear. The activists gave up and retreated down the street, with the elderly lady loudly hurling abuse at them. The activists met their match in that old lady.

Maybe that lady needs to take a trip to NYC to deal with these ideologues.

I think you are missing the central issue here. For the people raising the ruckus, the issue isn't about safety for horses. Their belief is that it is sinful for people to "own" animals and deploy them for human benefit.

This is just a skirmish in their particular holy war, and any movement on this front is "captured" ground. Raising an issue of "safety" is simply a battlefield tactic to gain sympathizers and disguise the fundamental agenda. A "solution" might be negotiated as you suggest, but they will simply await the next opportunity to overturn that agreement and eliminate the horses entirely. Then they will move on to the next front, which is likely to be something such as horse-racing.