FAX Exchange Program cancelled by Wyndham

[montybiggs Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close montybiggs]

new member here. anyone else upset over cancellation of this program? Always preferred lower cost of use within their propertys.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I think they loss too many members and does not add any new resorts in, so does not be able to attract enough high quality week to deposit. Plus they have very low exchange fee to start with, and it becomes a losing business for them.

Their exchange rate is down every year since they started the FSP program.

Unfortunately situation.

Jya-Ning

[Pat H Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pat H]

Got the same letter not that I use FAX at all. Maybe now that they are offering 25% off to convert to points I will do it. Wonder in the m/f will be any cheaper in points?

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Great. One down, ne to go. Lets get weeks in the history book where it belongs

The death of this crippled system occurred many years ago. This is what SHOULD happen to RCI Weeks as well. Both systems were tried, proven unworkable and basically unwanted as the Points based systems that repalaced them are much better at properly valuing ownerships and setting up a flexible and fair method for equal exchange. Also fees can be brought into line with value (no more subsidies of the prime times by the poor time owners who were paying the same rate! It was a handout to the prime owners on the backs of the slow period owners. It has to be fixed and points can do it).

No tears will be shed for FAX and none should be shed when RCI finally says - "all exchanges will occur in a points based system". It will be the biggest and best step ever toward a viable exchange system that actually benefits all parties involved. Of course we need to get the RCI Rental mess fixed as they have NO business renting weeks to non-RCI members except in a few, tightly monitored situations where the owner base really has had every opportunity to obtain the use through points and with last minute discounts, etc. Then, and only then, rather than let it go to waste RCI should be able to rent that certifiably unwanted time to anyone who is willing to rent it.

You can see there is plenty to do without trying to keep the unsustainable one week for one week model alive any longer. That system was never viable and needs to be replaced. We have the new system in place, lets get it working correctly and get into a true "golden age" of timeshare exchange.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Got the same letter not that I use FAX at all. Maybe now that they are offering 25% off to convert to points I will do it. Wonder in the m/f will be any cheaper in points?

MF should not be affected. What your HOA decided, divided by 52. It will only be effective if you have red week. What will happen is instead of the MF decided by your HOA, you will also pay the FSP program fee.

At this moment, you probably can pick up Wyndham points by $5 per 1K through eBay or less. So it really depends on how much you get from the points. If you get 154k or less, it is like $13 per 1K. May not worth it unless you have more than 1 week (the 2nd week is 1,000, not sure if they also in 25% discount).

Jya-Ning

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Wrong! The weeks concept was an improvement over the older points concept. Today, lying about weeks is the main strategy of points conversion brokers in any system to try to strongarm people into a points system. As to properly valuing ownerships, RCI Points, the only one where I have looked at the number is detail, is a pathetic joke that reeks of insider dealing between RCI and developers in rigging their little numbers racket. The UK's newest resort is being built as a weeks-based resort because the developers there have determined that is what the market wants.

The death of this crippled system occurred many years ago. This is what SHOULD happen to RCI Weeks as well. Both systems were tried, proven unworkable and basically unwanted as the Points based systems that repalaced them are much better at properly valuing ownerships and setting up a flexible and fair method for equal exchange. Also fees can be brought into line with value (no more subsidies of the prime times by the poor time owners who were paying the same rate! It was a handout to the prime owners on the backs of the slow period owners. It has to be fixed and points can do it).

No tears will be shed for FAX and none should be shed when RCI finally says - "all exchanges will occur in a points based system". It will be the biggest and best step ever toward a viable exchange system that actually benefits all parties involved. Of course we need to get the RCI Rental mess fixed as they have NO business renting weeks to non-RCI members except in a few, tightly monitored situations where the owner base really has had every opportunity to obtain the use through points and with last minute discounts, etc. Then, and only then, rather than let it go to waste RCI should be able to rent that certifiably unwanted time to anyone who is willing to rent it.

You can see there is plenty to do without trying to keep the unsustainable one week for one week model alive any longer. That system was never viable and needs to be replaced. We have the new system in place, lets get it working correctly and get into a true "golden age" of timeshare exchange.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Weeks simply cannot adjust for the variations fairly

Wrong! The weeks concept was an improvement over the older points concept. Today, lying about weeks is the main strategy of points conversion brokers in any system to try to strongarm people into a points system. As to properly valuing ownerships, RCI Points, the only one where I have looked at the number is detail, is a pathetic joke that reeks of insider dealing between RCI and developers in rigging their little numbers racket. The UK's newest resort is being built as a weeks-based resort because the developers there have determined that is what the market wants.

For anyone so worried about equal trades and the cost of annual fees vs value it would seem to me backing a week for week trade system makes no sense. How can it be justified that some of the very best traders / use value in the US, beach front / extremely seasonal areas, ask that owners pay the same rate for those top of the top weeks as do the owners of some of the WORST weeks in all of timeshare, off season time at those exact same resorts.

Few if any resorts were set up to reflect fees in line with those wildly differing use/trade values (sometimes due to State law prohibiting differing fees) yet a good points based system can bring fees into line with those values. Unless the main thought is that those super prime weeks should be subsidized by the other, weak value weeks (and why would that be?) then having the owners of the top times pay far more in annual fees - as a large pot of points accomplishes while giving the low value points owner correspondingly equal per point fees and a much lower total - all of which gives use/trade value to those otherwise worthless times. It solves the issue of getting those most likely to default on fees as everyone pays the same per point and every point "spends" the same. No winners and no losers - exactly what the so-called "trade power" attempted to do and failed miserably.

The real issue seems to be that weeks owners want that subsidy for the best times and they are willing to take it from other owners either at their resorts or, by fictitious "trade value" upgrades through groups like RCI/II et al, from other resorts. If true balance was the real desire then some type of points or open valuation system would be the choice. From the recent growth of points based systems and the downward spiral of weeks based systems it appears owners feel that way too. They have to be able to get value out of that 80% of time that isn't prime and have a fair shot at gettin the 20% at least on occasion. Until a weeks system somehow manages that they are doomed to failure.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

For anyone so worried about equal trades and the cost of annual fees vs value it would seem to me backing a week for week trade system makes no sense. How can it be justified that some of the very best traders / use value in the US, beach front / extremely seasonal areas, ask that owners pay the same rate for those top of the top weeks as do the owners of some of the WORST weeks in all of timeshare, off season time at those exact same resorts.

Does not matter what RCI does, those week resorts will not be able to change its fee structure. So they will be there until they no longer in TS.

It will take a very long time for those resorts to fold naturally, and it prob. will not be a pretty picture when that happen.

RCI goes to points because it wants to get more money.

FAX goes out because Wyndham does not want to continue it. Nothing says the HOA can not form one themselves. But that is another story.

I don't believe either considerations has anything to do with what customer think or prefer. Since RCI now tries to become renting company.

Jya-Ning

[montybiggs Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close montybiggs]

follow up to replies

Appreciate all the replies, but no one actually addressed the issue I was making or trying to. I have owned with Wyndham since 1981. I purchased a fixed week, as that was all they had at the time. It was a mid level week at that time & allowed me to exchange for a mid level week at their other resorts(maybe 6-8 properties then) for a minimal fee. My family enjoyed that feature. My concern is that I no longer have that option with Wyndam & those limited properties. I am not asking for more than I originally had. The problem is Wyndham has pushed the Points System exclusively to the detriment of me & others like me who don't want to pay their extra fee to convert the fixed week to points. With no exchange option available they have damaged the value. What happens if they change things in the future & the only way you can take advantage is to increase your outlay or lose out?

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

The FAX program is gone, and it's not coming back. Unless you have documents from your purchase that guarantee the presence of FAX going forward (and you almost certainly don't) there's little you can do about this change.

That said, converting to points is not your only option.

Depending on where you own, you can join either RCI, II, or both. Fees will be higher than they were under FAX, but you may well also have more choices than you did previously. If you have the option, II is generally less expensive, but either is probably a lower-cost option vs. conversion. Alternatively, you could consider one of the many independents available that have even lower fees---DAE and TPI come to mind. SFX is another frequently-mentioned independent, but with a mid-level week, they may not be willing to accept it as a deposit.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

The FAX program is gone, and it's not coming back. Unless you have documents from your purchase that guarantee the presence of FAX going forward (and you almost certainly don't) there's little you can do about this change.

That said, converting to points is not your only option.

Depending on where you own, you can join either RCI, II, or both. Fees will be higher than they were under FAX, but you may well also have more choices than you did previously. If you have the option, II is generally less expensive, but either is probably a lower-cost option vs. conversion. Alternatively, you could consider one of the many independents available that have even lower fees---DAE and TPI come to mind. SFX is another frequently-mentioned independent, but with a mid-level week, they may not be willing to accept it as a deposit.

DAE accepts just about any week as a deposit. I do not know about TPI.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Actually, if you look at any HOA budget, and as an HOA officer, I am sure you do, the costs to the association are essentially the same for all weeks, so charging some more and some less of a m/f would actually be unfair. Indeed, from posts by some Tuggers there are states where it would even violate state law.

Where points is really screwed up is valuing the trading power of any week. That is because it is more rigid in that sense and less flexible than a weeks based system. The best example is Thanksgiving week, which is prime a lot of places, and sometimes falls in week 46 and sometimes week 47. A points system always gives the massive Thanksgiving bump to week 47, even in years that it is the very low demand week after Thanksgiving. The flexibility of weeks, on the other hand, allows the Thanksgiving bump in trading power to go correctly to the week that is indeed Thanksgiving. There are other serious trading power deficiencies inherent in points such as the overaveraging that comes with a published table of values and the space limitations thereof.

For anyone so worried about equal trades and the cost of annual fees vs value it would seem to me backing a week for week trade system makes no sense. How can it be justified that some of the very best traders / use value in the US, beach front / extremely seasonal areas, ask that owners pay the same rate for those top of the top weeks as do the owners of some of the WORST weeks in all of timeshare, off season time at those exact same resorts.

Few if any resorts were set up to reflect fees in line with those wildly differing use/trade values (sometimes due to State law prohibiting differing fees) yet a good points based system can bring fees into line with those values. Unless the main thought is that those super prime weeks should be subsidized by the other, weak value weeks (and why would that be?) then having the owners of the top times pay far more in annual fees - as a large pot of points accomplishes while giving the low value points owner correspondingly equal per point fees and a much lower total - all of which gives use/trade value to those otherwise worthless times. It solves the issue of getting those most likely to default on fees as everyone pays the same per point and every point "spends" the same. No winners and no losers - exactly what the so-called "trade power" attempted to do and failed miserably.

The real issue seems to be that weeks owners want that subsidy for the best times and they are willing to take it from other owners either at their resorts or, by fictitious "trade value" upgrades through groups like RCI/II et al, from other resorts. If true balance was the real desire then some type of points or open valuation system would be the choice. From the recent growth of points based systems and the downward spiral of weeks based systems it appears owners feel that way too. They have to be able to get value out of that 80% of time that isn't prime and have a fair shot at gettin the 20% at least on occasion. Until a weeks system somehow manages that they are doomed to failure.

[gophish Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close gophish]

Have never used the FAX program in Wyndham as we are points owners there but disagree that it would be better to get rid of all weeks programs. I'm not sure how Wyndham will handle that with RCI if and when RCI crashes the weeks program for good. Right now almost all Wyndham points owners have an RCI weeks account for exchanges that is paid for as part of Wyndham fees. When you deposit for exchange you use Wyndham points in various denominations to secure weeks for exchange in RCI. To change that Wyndham would have to figure out a Wyndham points to RCI points conversion to do points exchanges and I am sure that Wyndham owners would get screwed again in that conversion. As far as I am concerned it would just be another way of devaluing our ownership and I think they already have enough ways of doing that!!

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

With no exchange option available they have damaged the value. What happens if they change things in the future & the only way you can take advantage is to increase your outlay or lose out?

Unfortunately, that is something one or 2 single person can not do too much about it.

In the end, you have to rely on what is tied to your deed.

But there will always be some exchange programs there. Although you can expect all these exchange companies will continue try to increase their fee. You will always be able to get what your deed defined (be point, fix week, floating week). You will always be able to exchange it with other owner if you can find them. And if timeshare continue grow, the market will be there, so someone will try to come up something to make money out of it.

Since you have middle season, it will not be valuable to convert it unless you already has purchased Wyndham point from developer.

And if you want to gather more people to find a possible solution, you may need to contact your HOA/POA board and see if they have any plan. But that way usually take longer, and may cost more.

Jya-Ning

[montybiggs Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close montybiggs]

montybiggs

Thanks for all the responses. I am aware of most of my alternatives with FAX now out of the picture. I have always had access to RCI with my Fixed Week with Wyndham(included in annual fee). The problem, as you all know, is RCI is at a higher fee than FAX exhange was.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see RCI ditch the Weeks Exchange program as Wyndham has done with FAX, because if I am not mistaken my Fixed Week trades thru RCI for a higher value than my Wyndham Plus Week, even though both have the same point value at Wyndham. Someone please confirm this if they know.

Since Wyndham Worldwide owns both Wyndham Vacation Resorts & RCI, you would think they would coordinate better.

Have any Wyndham Plus owners tried to exchange to another Wyndham Property and been advised the week is not available and then check through RCI & find that same week at the same resort available through RCI ? What's going on with that setup???????