Haiti "child kidnappers"

[PigsDad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PigsDad]

I'm surprised this has not been discussed here yet. What is everyone's opinion on the group of 10 missionaries from Idaho who were charged with kidnapping 33 children?

Are they guilty of kidnapping those children?
Was anything underhanded going on?
Are they just guilty of ignorance of the law?
What will / should be the fate of those charged with the kidnapping?

Seems to me that these were over-zealous missionaries at the least, but after hearing the woman who was the leader of the group speak, I get the feeling they were trying to hide something. No one could be that dense and think they could just take 33 kids out of the country w/ no paperwork, approval, etc., right?

Kurt

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

1: I don't know the relevant law, but it sounds as though removing the kids, even with their parents' permission, wasn't strictly legal in Haiti.

2: I doubt it, though the fact that they claimed all the kids were orphans suggested that they at least had an idea that someone would disapprove.

3: As I said in #2, not entirely ignorant, but probably largely so.

4: Hard to say. I'd guess they'll be barred from entering Haiti at the very least, and may well face more serious consequences.

I haven't heard any direct quotes. I suspect these folks had largely good intentions, but took things into their own hands knowing that it wasn't really by the book. One thing I wonder about is what would have happened to these kids when the missionaries moved on to some new crisis? Would anyone be looking out for them then? I suspect maybe not.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I'm surprised this has not been discussed here yet.

It was in political forum. Just did not get big discussion.

I am very bias. And already put them guilty and believe they will be very happy to ask to be treated by the worse possible sentence.

Jya-Ning

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

I believe they knew exactly what they were doing. In fact it's reported that the leader of the group said that he/she was planning to go back later to complete the paperwork. That clearly indicates that they knew they had no right to remove the children in the way they were doing.
I see no difference between what he/she claimed they were going to do and a shoplifter claiming they were going to go back and pay once they had been caught.
I hope they have the book thrown at them to show that people from rich nations can't ride roughshod over others.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

people from rich nations can't ride roughshod over others.

That's a fair point. "We know better" isn't always so.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

The ironic is, they prob get much bigger exposure due to this, and may get a lot of donation than before.

Jya-ning

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Nice record for the leader of the pack.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

Knowing a little about how Haiti "works", if there was money involved the kids would allready be in the USA ( I am not saying that is what should have happened.) Some of the leaders think there are too many kids now. Haiti government does not have a very clean record. Remember Doc & Baby Doc ?

[pittle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pittle]

I think the gal that was leading it most likely knew what all was going on, but am not sure about the others. I really think that the majority of the group really did want to go to help people in need. I base this on what I have heard from a friend whose nephew's wife & daughter are 2 of the ones being held. The daughter just turned 18 - she is the skinny scared looking one in a blue/green shirt. Anyway, she and her mother (red shirt in photos) went with the church group just to help. I personally think they are very naive and did go with the group to try to help children. From what I understand, when they heard about the need for volunteers to go help with a new orphanage, they said they would go since others from their church would be going.

I also read about a firefighter from Topeka (where we lived for about 30 years) who is also a part-time youth minister, who somehow got in with this group too. He took vacation time to go and expected to be home by now.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

I think their intentions were good as they probably thought the end justified the means.

My hospital sent a FEMA disaster team to Haiti and in talking to my friends that have returned they were so distraught that they have been having a hard time sleeping because it was so horrible that they say you can't even imagine what it is like. Between the smoke, dust, stench, rotting bodies and death all around at every turn not to mention the constant aftershocks, I think that they really thought it couldn't get any worse for these children and were willing to take a risk, to save a few children while it was still possible.

It's so easy to judge from here what is going on there but the Americans who are there trying to help are so frustrated with the chaos that it's easy to want to take matters into your own hands because they are there to help yet are forced to stand by and watch as more and more people who if they were not in Haiti would have survived. They are doing desperate things like cutting off limbs without anesthesia to try to save people but because of no supplies, blood and basics like sutures and pain medications, the people are just left to die. It's truly worse than any of us can imagine.

We Americans are not used to just sitting there and doing nothing when we know there might be hope, so I'm sure these missionaries had the childrens best interests at heart even though they obviously didn't use wisdom.

It's a shame but this incident is only going to make it harder to help any more children there. Sadly they made a bad situation, worse and I'm sure that was not their intention at all.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

I think their intentions were good as they probably thought the end justified the means.

You're probably right with that interpretation for the helpers, but the leaders knew exactly what they were doing and what would happen if they were caught. The motives there were more likely egotism than caring.

.... were willing to take a risk, to save a few children while it was still possible.

Nice theory, but as they didn't have any documentation, they couldn't be sure they were saving anybody or that any of these children needed saving.

It's so easy to judge from here ....

I agree on that, but news reports would seem to damn the leaders from their own statements.

I'm sure these missionaries had the childrens best interests at heart even though they obviously didn't use wisdom.

They certainly didn't use wisdom, but these people are often so blinkered by belief in their own infallibility that the genuine 'best interests' of those to whom they are peddling their views are of no importance.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

QUOTE=Keitht;370495] You're probably right with that interpretation for the helpers, but the leaders knew exactly what they were doing and what would happen if they were caught. The motives there were more likely egotism than caring.

Unfortunately, you gotta be careful what leaders you are following. It's sad they were naive enough to trust blindly here.

Nice theory, but as they didn't have any documentation, they couldn't be sure they were saving anybody or that any of these children needed saving.

All the documents in this country have been destroyed so there is no documentation on anyone. This is a major problem that everyone is facing in this disaster. I've got friends now trying to get their family members out of the country but are unable to and they have the means to support them.
Lots of red tape with no solution in sight.


They certainly didn't use wisdom, but these people are often so blinkered by belief in their own infallibility that the genuine 'best interests' of those to whom they are peddling their views are of no importance.

It's so bad there, the need sooooooo great and when you feel that you have got to do something to save these people, I can see why they'd try to skirt the red tape and try to save the children that they could. It's hard to just sit by and watch death come calling. Maybe these kids wouldn't die right away but who knows what their fate will be. Many poor families in Haiti sell their children to wealthier families because no welfare system is in place and they feel that selling them as Restaveks (indentured child slaves) is a better life than death by starvation. Again, it's hard for the developed world to understand the desperation and their own home grown solutions. You are right we just can't judge Haiti by our value system. They see nothing wrong with child slavery. It's a necessity of life for many in Haiti. ..
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[littlestar Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close littlestar]

I have friends that have adopted children from China and Russia. They had to pay bribe money (gifts) all along the journey to finally get their children to the states.

That missionary group would have been better off to try to help kids here at home. If they wanted to help Haiti, they should have made a donation to a worthy charity and stayed home.

From what I've heard, it wasn't too stable over there before the earthquake, and now it's even worse. I don't think they had any business even going there to begin with. That was just one more group of people to put a burden on the water and food shortage. Plus, I'm sure there's no rule of law at all. I've been reading about rapes in the camps because there is no rule of law. The girl that's the ring leader sounds pretty dumb to me to even suggest taking people over there (much less females) into that mess.

[brother coony Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close brother coony]

The Missionary Leader had Plan on using Haiti children to make her money even befor the earthquake, she was setting up so call orphanage to sell those kids as child-slaves,
it has been an angoing thing in Haiti, and most parent dont know,they thing there kids are going to live with families that are going to take care of them, Haiti Parents most of the time dont know that whats the forigners that come bearing gift plan on doing with there kids, Law & Order had on escapade several months ago with this same issue,
they should all be thrown in Jail for atleast 25 years,
Even if an annimal is starving you do not take there off springs

[PigsDad Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PigsDad]

The Missionary Leader had Plan on using Haiti children to make her money even befor the earthquake, she was setting up so call orphanage to sell those kids as child-slaves

Do you have any sources for those accusations, or is that just your opinion?

None of the news reports that I have seen have even hinted anything about child slavery.

Kurt