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Your High School Diploma is now officially meaningless

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  • Your High School Diploma is now officially meaningless

    EEOC: High school diploma requirement might violate Americans with Disabilities Act
    Employers are facing more uncertainty in the wake of a letter from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission warning them that requiring a high school diploma from a job applicant might violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.

    The development also has some wondering if the agency’s advice will result in an educational backlash by creating less of an incentive for some high-school students to graduate.

    The “informal discussion letter” from the EEOC said an employer’s requirement of a high school diploma, long a standard criteria for screening potential employees, must be “job-related for the position in question and consistent with business necessity.” The letter was posted on the commission’s website on Dec. 2.
    I guess I show my age. When I was a lad it was still an era when having a high school diploma meant that a person possessed a particular set of skills that were generally useful to employers. That, in fact, was the main point of having a high school diploma, and employers were expected give preference to people with high school diplomas because they had more versatile and usefull skillsets. Whether or not the job directly required a high school diploma was irrelevant - it was recognized that possessing the diploma carried with it a set of skills.

    Of course smart employers have always known that the paper doesn't confer the knowledge, so you can often find capable and skilled people lacking the paper credentials. And they have made, and continue to make efforts to do so.

    ******

    I guess this is a late lament, though, because the value of diploma disappeared when schools started issuing diplomas pretty much as a reward for not dropping out (of course that meant the schools could continue to receive their state education aid because the student was in school even though the student had long ago stopped learning anything). Sometimes these days I wonder how much value a college diploma has, since I have seen too many college grads who fell far short of the skill level I learned to associate with a college degree.

    ***

    Maybe I expect too much. Perhaps today's college typical college diploma is the equivalent of our grandparents' high school diplomas.
    “Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”

    “This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”

    “You shouldn't wear that body.”

  • #2
    Originally posted by T. R. Oglodyte
    [B]

    Maybe I expect too much. Perhaps today's college typical college diploma is the equivalent of our grandparents' high school diplomas.
    I agree with this, i'm still young at 31, but even when i was going through high school more then 10yrs ago, they graduated everyone that didn't just stop going...A high school diploma doesn't really mean anything anymore

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    • #3
      Unrelated, but I am not impressed with the lack of grammar, spelling and basic skills that many college graduates have. A piece of paper doesn't cure stupid.

      Comment


      • #4
        Degree

        I have an agrument with my sister n law all the time. She has a Masters and no common sense. I have two degrees and everyone says I've always had common sense.
        She feels that anyone with a degree is smarter than anyone without. I feel that a degree just means you kept pushing ahead more. Her degree got her the posistion she has and she doesn't make as much money as I do. I had my job before getting my degrees and my job doesn't require a degree.
        She is in the hole for about $80,000 and took aprox. 15 years of going to college part time. I never owed a cent and took 6 years.
        Personally, I don't even feel she is smarter in her field but I respect the fact she tries so I don't bring that into our fights.
        Bart
        I live to vacation and vacation to live.

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        • #5
          It is true that a high school diploma is not what it used to be. Much of that is a supply and demand issue. When my mother graduated in 1942, these were relatively rare. Whether in a rural community or an industrial community, there was some feeling that once one learned basic 3 R's, this was all that was necessary and many saw no reason to stay beyond this. The diploma was more based on graduating with job skills. She spent her life as a bookkeeper based on the courses she took in high school. There is still some job skills training. However, in today's market, there is an expectation that the student will go on for more training at a college or university. Unfortunately, many do not go on.

          As far as a correlation between being a college graduate and having common sense, I have not experienced this for myself nor anyone else. They don't teach common sense nor decision-making in college. These folks make the same mistakes that everyone else does.

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          • #6
            I also believe that most students graduating from even the upper level public school systems do not possess the raw skills that people of one generation removed received.

            A college education was meant to refine and focus the rudimentary learning of grades 1-12. Now most pay in college for what would should be had in public schools. A lot of the basic skills has been shifted onto parents that don't care or don't have time. Those who can afford private schools might fare better but those are out of a lot of people's budgets.

            I disagree that employers are still willing to give "unpapered" people even half the chance they gave 20-30 years ago. Will have to dig out the recent documentary on that...
            Lawren
            ------------------------
            There are many wonderful places in the world, but one of my favourite places is on the back of my horse.
            - Rolf Kopfle

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            • #7
              The Cal State University system has now implemented an "early start" program for remediation. HS students are entering college without the necessary Math and English skills. 6 weeks to undo what was lacking over 12 years?

              Admissions and Records - Early Start Program

              The community colleges are clamoring for these remedial students (money, money, money)

              My son needed Eng 104 (critical thinking) as his last class before transfer to a CSU. There were exactly 4 classes offered. 1 honors. Wanna guess how many Eng 10, Eng 50 classes were offered?

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              • #8
                alas, I think it is true

                I have to agree that having a HS diploma doesn't necessarily mean the same as it once did. Trying to cater to the needs of such a diverse cross-section of population and demographics, social issues, major changes in the current job market, and even cultural perspectives seem to have taken a toll on US public education. Heck, having a HS diploma at one time meant you could at least read, write and do basic math -- I'm not sure that's necessarily the case today.

                More and more companies require perspective employees to take an pre-employment exam now, which is the way they deal with this situation. The government saw this coming years ago -- and various branches have a battery of aptitude/skill/knowledge tests that applicants must take. The armed services and other government service agencies have been doing this for decades, especially in the most technical or sensitive areas. [The funny thing is that I haven't heard anyone doing this for the most critical government areas, like elected politicians.]

                Comment


                • #9
                  They say that at some schools, all you have to do is drive by with your window rolled down and they'll toss a diploma in your car. That's not true. You have to stop first.
                  Our timeshare and other photo's at http://dougp26364.smugmug.com/

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Icc5
                    She feels that anyone with a degree is smarter than anyone without.
                    The one guy on my mom's side with a doctorate is a complete moron, and he believes this too. The doctorates on dad's side are a lot more sane, but dad's side has the philosophy that most degrees basically demonstrate you can put up with a lot of stupid rules and are willing to play the game.

                    My older kids are getting toward college age and I'm just not sure if college is what they need to be doing. I know so many people who were flattened with college debt and never did get anything like their money's worth out of it. I paid as I went but I knew a degree wasn't going to get me where I wanted to go so it was more about liking college than going for a degree. And college was a lot more affordable back then.

                    Eldest son works part time as a computer guy and is already making more per hour than many college graduates, so at this point seems to me it'd make more sense to get him certified in more computer systems than to send him to college. So far second daughter's the only one whose goals will likely require college; the boys would be just as happy in technical fields and eldest daughter is worse than I am about liking to learn but not that into developing a career plan. Our family's more about vocation than careers, I guess.

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                    • #11
                      WOW!!! Simply mind blowing. I remember when it meant something too.

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                      • #12
                        High schools are better today than they ever were. ie.They teach Calculus as well as other advanced courses only available in colleges years ago. In colleges the courses available the maths and sciences boggles the mind compared to years ago.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ebram
                          High schools are better today than they ever were. ie.They teach Calculus as well as other advanced courses only available in colleges years ago. In colleges the courses available the maths and sciences boggles the mind compared to years ago.
                          Society has advanced too, 50yrs ago, there was a lot more mechanical, farm, factory jobs...the careers where you didn't need advanced maths and sciences...I think you'll find that where some courses have advanced, courses like Gym and English have fallen far far behind...

                          I don't remember the point i was going to make...Even with these advances in the maths and sciences, the overall education level to graduate high school has dropped significantly when compared to the huge advances in the job market....Yah, maybe that was the point

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If high schools are so bad how come the competition to get in to Ivy schools have gone to 10:1 from 2:1 years ago.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ebram View Post
                              If high schools are so bad how come the competition to get in to Ivy schools have gone to 10:1 from 2:1 years ago.
                              Even if true (which is highly doubtful), that would merely indicate that the number of students applying to those schools has increased but indicates nothing about the quality of preparation of those students. And even if further granting the veracity, all that might mean is that the set of students who apply to Ivy League is receiving more advanced instruction. It would say nothing about the quality of preparation for the vastly larger population of students who don't apply to Ivy League schools.

                              For myself, I find it hard to believe that the overall level of education provided is significantly better when most large public universities have found it necessary to institute non-credit classes on remedial English and math to deal with high school graduates who don't those basic skills. And it's not because the basic levels of attainment in those areas have changed. It's because schools hand out diplomas to students who don't have those skills.
                              “Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”

                              “This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”

                              “You shouldn't wear that body.”

                              Comment

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