censorship on this site

[Bulldog Drummond Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bulldog Drummond]

I have been taken to task regarding my comments on DAE recently. I have worked in the timeshare industry for quite some time and I know the management of DAE as well as those in other exchange companies personally. What I stated was a very accurate statement. If those on this site would have taken the time to contact employees in the industry including members of CARE or ARDA they would know that my statements are 100% on point.
However, a more important item is the way the management of this site immediately shut down all comment on the topic, leading me to believe that this site may NOT be a safe place for an open and candid discussion of timesharing and or the timeshare industry. If this is indeed the case then all timeshare owners should take what is posted here with a " grain of salt" ie not seriously at all

Cordially,

Bulldog Drummond

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

Sorry if you felt censored by the close of the "bed bug" thread, but I believe Keith explained the reasons for closing that one.

On the other hand, if you wish to help us understand your position, please direct us to pages on ARDA or elsewhere, give us links...we are a fair group here and do not stifle discussion...mind you, I am saying discussion....if you truly want to have a dialogue, help us out....where do we find the information you refer to.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

The only reasons for locking the thread were that it had gone completely off topic and that an attack had been launched on DAE management without any facts to back up that attack.
If you have evidence to support your previous statement please let us see it. Personal attacks or innuendo have no place on this site.
I don't think it is unreasonable for a new member who resurrects a 6 month old topic to be viewed with some suspicion as to their motives. I have no view or personal experience one way or the other of DAE as I have never had any dealings with them.

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

Personal attacks or innuendo have no place on this site.

I don't think it is unreasonable for a new member who resurrects a 6 month old topic to be viewed with some suspicion as to their motives.

This site is pretty wide open to critical views. But, a member, who has three posts is seen in a different light than someone who has been on this site for some time. Their critical views are given more latitude.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I'm going to add my two cents here and say that I believe this site to be incredibly fair and open minded. They are not at all prone to censorship. After all, they allow me to rant and rave on an on going bases......

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I'm going to add my two cents here and say that I believe this site to be incredibly fair and open minded. They are not at all prone to censorship. After all, they allow me to rant and rave on an on going bases......

Me, too. Angie, believe it or not, if we were neighbors, we would be best friends.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Me, too. Angie, believe it or not, if we were neighbors, we would be best friends.

I'm sure that we would be....I always say that after all is said and done, we are all still Americans. We have much more in common with each other than not.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Well, I would have to agree that this site is incredibly tolerant and promotes the free exchange of ideas. I have also never seen a site more responsive to the needs and desires of its members.
I was even allowed to opt of the Political Forum

Keith had good reason to close the thread, or it would still be open.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

There are always limitations to free speech, but we believe that this forum should be as free as possible. We even allow some vendettas, but will close the door when the commentary is unsubstantiated or untrue. If anyone wants to discuss an exchange company, they are free to do so, but in an appropriate topic and with reasonability.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I have been taken to task regarding my comments on DAE recently. I have worked in the timeshare industry for quite some time and I know the management of DAE as well as those in other exchange companies personally. What I stated was a very accurate statement. If those on this site would have taken the time to contact employees in the industry including members of CARE or ARDA they would know that my statements are 100% on point.
However, a more important item is the way the management of this site immediately shut down all comment on the topic, leading me to believe that this site may NOT be a safe place for an open and candid discussion of timesharing and or the timeshare industry. If this is indeed the case then all timeshare owners should take what is posted here with a " grain of salt" ie not seriously at all

Cordially,

Bulldog Drummond

You are joking right aren't you.
First off you are a new member that has not spent any time here at all.
2nd you looked at the only thread that was in the DAE forum that was negative. If you have a beef with them tell us about it in another forum.
3rd you were completely off topic.
4th I was the one that requested the thread closed. Not because you were off topic but because as I stated in that thread any posts in that ask DAE forum are for questions to DAE and DAE gets an email with every post. How would you like to get 20 emails all at once.
Now if you looked at my post before trying to be as negative as you are you would have seen that part as well as the part that I asked my moderators if they wanted to split the thread and posts which would have included your post. This way we could have continued on with the discussion on another forum.

I suggest you get your facts straight before you post. Because you IMO do not have the slightest idea of what this site is about.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

Also because this thread has nothing at all to do with DAE and since you are not asking DAE a question, This thread does not belong here so to the OP I am moving it to an area that we can discuss it further. If you would have read my first post you would have understood that this forum is for question only.

[Beaglemom3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Beaglemom3]

Just for your consideration.....
Bulldog, as one of the ones who pondered your motives, I wonder if you'd be interested in starting a new thread on what your experiences have been with DAE ? Some of us may be in agreement or not.
This type of discussion is always open here (and to say the least, lively) if backed up by the facts and experience. We do it with RCI a lot and with II occasionally.
I am a huge opponent of indiscriminate censoring and/or closing of threads for no apparent reason, I mean big time opponent, but it was way off topic and seemingly based on inuendo and hearsay. It was closed, but the opportunity to discuss it on a new thread was opened.
B

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I have no idea what this is about, (which makes me as qualified as many who post of Internet sites!) other than my own experience. I won't comment about this site, or any other site specifically.

I will say that laws relating to subjects such as freedom of speech on the Internet are in their infancy. More accurately, the seeds of conception are just now being sown.

As of now, Internet sites are private, in that they are owned by entities. Those entities formulate rules for the use of the site, much as a homeowner has rules, stated or not, as to how guests shall behave while visiting. A lot of it has to do with common sense, diplomacy, manners, etc. Whether you pay to use a site or not, you must abide by whatever rules a site's owner puts forth.

The talk about being new to a site is not derogatory; it is simply stating that perhaps a new person has not acquainted themselves with how the site operates yet. In real life when a person visits a new place, say someone's home, they kinda lay low awhile, know what I mean? Instead of just barging in, being boisterous, etc., not that that happened here since I don't know what this is about.

In short, freedom of speech does not extend to the Internet in the same manner as it would if you were standing in a public place. That's because you are not in a public place; you are in a private domain available to the public.

I believe the future of laws governing the use of the Internet will be based on how today's website owners go about conducting business. How those people deal with those who use their sites will determine how those who construct laws governing the Internet will proceed.

Being as we are a nation that values individual rights and freedoms, if websites owners and manager become too onerous, I believe those who make the laws will deal with that.

In the mean time, learn to live with what is.

When you get upset, go down to the dock and take a rest.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I have been taken to task regarding my comments on DAE recently. I have worked in the timeshare industry for quite some time and I know the management of DAE as well as those in other exchange companies personally. What I stated was a very accurate statement. If those on this site would have taken the time to contact employees in the industry including members of CARE or ARDA they would know that my statements are 100% on point.
However, a more important item is the way the management of this site immediately shut down all comment on the topic, leading me to believe that this site may NOT be a safe place for an open and candid discussion of timesharing and or the timeshare industry. If this is indeed the case then all timeshare owners should take what is posted here with a " grain of salt" ie not seriously at all

Cordially,

Bulldog Drummond

Bulldog,

Not too many people without an agenda or bone to pick would come to a site and start flaming it after 3 posts. You clearly know very little about this site and the people who run it. Why don't you hang around for a month or so and interact with some of the posters here for more than a nanosecond. I think you will come to the conclusion that your remarks couldn't be farther from the truth. You may even learn something from us and we may learn something from you.

Okay, I'm calling you out. I was going to meet with Melanie Gring yesterday, but she couldn't make it to my party. So, let me know who you are in a PM and I'll ask her about you and whether or not your opinions about DAE are indeed accurate. Are you an executive or a member of the rank and file? Knowing this will certainly help me understand where you are coming from.

I will post what Melanie tells me if she allows me to do so. If you don't identify yourself, I'll assume you don't know Melanie and she doesn't know you. In any event, she will have an opinion about DAE.

Before you conclude that you are the only one on this site that knows people in the industry, you should heed the advice of Sun Tzu:

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
- Sun Tzu

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

The internet is the best thing for free speech. As Jim (JLB) mentions each site can set it's own rules. But anyone can set up their own site and say what they want.

Consider the analogy to print media. Freedom of the press does not mean that a person who owns a printing press must print anything and everything that someone wants to have printed. Similarly, the person who operates a newstand is not obligated to take what you've printed and put it on a rack. Freedom of the press means that if you can get it printed, you can distribute it (or make distribution arrangments) and make it available to the public. The public is then free to read it or ignore it, as they wish.

But note the limitation - you are still responsible for getting it down on paper and distributing it for people to read in the first place. The public bears no obligation to help you get past those first steps.

****

Because you first need a printing press (or a copy machine) to mass produce content, totalitarian regimes soon relized the most effective way to exercise censorship was to control printing presses, copy machines, and paper supplies. They all made it illegal for individuals to own or operate printing presses and copy machines, and they would monitor what was produced on the machines that were allowed to operate. They also controlled the sale of paper so that ordinary people could not purchase any significant amount of blank paper.

Now comes the internet, which is the electronic equivalent a printing press and a newstand combined. Any person with internet access can post their content and put it out there for others to see and read. The hurdle of getting your ideas printed and made available to the public is removed, and replaced with the much simpler requirement that you simply have internet access.

Predictably, totalitarian regimes are responding by trying to control internet access, which is the internet equivalent of controlling printing presses. But it's vastly harder to control internet access points than printing presses and copy machines.

******

Mr. Drummond (a great old literary reference, BTW) is not being censored at all - in any way, shape, or form. He is not in any way being prevented from expressing his opinion to the public.

For Mr. Drummond to claim that he is being censored for not being able to post what he wants here is the equiivalent of claiming that he is being censored because the owner of a printing press is not willing to print his newsletter and give it to newstands at no charge to Mr. Drummond.

*****

Freedom of speech does not mean the right to say whateever you want, in whatever manner you want, in whatever forum you want, and at whatever time you want. Freedom of speech means the ability to say what you want without having other people prevented from hearing what you have to say.

Or, with a different analogy, consider it like soapboxes in Hyde Park. Freedom of speech does not mean that someone else must yield their soapbox to you. Freedom of speech means that you can put your own soapbox in an unoccupied location. If the location of your soapbox isn't as "desirable" as someone else's, then it's up to you to make your location more desirable by providing better content and a better experience.