The Meaning of Guest

[riverdees05 Platinum Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close riverdees05]

"Since hearing the plan for treating illegal immigrants as "guest" workers, I now have undergone a complete reversal in my understanding of the proper meaning of words. I stupidly believed the definition of "guest" is one who is invited. Now I'm told this is no longer correct.

For instance, if a burglar breaks into my home, he really becomes a guest who is only looking for a better life. Because he broke in for that reason, I must accept the obligation to provide him with living quarters, health care, education, and transportation.

He has as much "right" to my house as I do, but I have to pay taxes he doesn't; because the government doesn't really know he is a "guest" in my house and I am not allowed to turn him in.

He will get preferential treatment because he is a "guest" in my house, yet I cannot say anything against him. If I do vocalize my feelings, I must attend "sensitivity" training because I just don't understand how to accept my "guest" and his customs/religion/culture, etc.

I am also required to learn his language so that we may communicate. It is not necessary for him to learn mine because he is a "guest" in my house.

I am not allowed to wave my flag, but he may fly or wave his flag anywhere he chooses, because he is my "guest".

I am required to subsidize his family and provide for his family's needs.

When I get paid, I must give a portion of it to him in the form of welfare and food stamps so he can get his food and supplies free and at reduced prices.

Because any money he makes is all his, he can buy the luxuries for his family that I can not afford for my family, but I have to be ok with that because he is now a resident in my house.

I feel SO much better - now that I understand."

[Icarus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Icarus]

This appears to be a quote from somewhere, right?

It's totally off the mark. Illegal immigrants don't collect benefits for fear of deportation. They don't typically pay taxes either. So they don't typically claim or get welfare benefits or food stamps. But their kids can and do attend our schools. Because we haven't been able to use sampling methods in the census, they also don't get counted properly in the census, which affects state and local funding in states and areas where there are many illegal immigrants.

But they are here. So what should be done about them?

We can continue to ignore them, I suppose, but like all things economic in a capitalist society, if there wasn't a "demand" for them here, they wouldn't be able to find work and wouldn't have as much of a reason to be here. Quite simply they are here fulfilling a demand for jobs that legals don't want.

I'm not sure what the point of the flag-waving thing is in the quote. Even facists are permitted to fly their flag in this country because it's a first ammendment right. Should we deny that right to others? How about a flag-burning ammendment? Would that be ok too? I'm perfectly fine without that, in fact, I'm proud of the fact that at least this is one area where the government isn't permitted to tell us what we can and can't do. I'm not about to go out and burn the American flag, but the fact that its protected under the 1st ammendment says a lot about our system.

-David

[Oracle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Oracle]

It's totally off the mark. Illegal immigrants don't collect benefits for fear of deportation. They don't typically pay taxes either. So they don't typically claim or get welfare benefits or food stamps. But their kids can and do attend our schools. Because we haven't been able to use sampling methods in the census, they also don't get counted properly in the census, which affects state and local funding in states and areas where there are many illegal immigrants. ...

Not quite so:

DALLAS -- Parkland Memorial Hospital plans to bill Mexico and other countries to help cover the costs of health care for indigents.

The plan, which also seeks payments from adjoining counties in Texas, has brought a negative response from the Mexican government, with a diplomat terming it "an act of discrimination."

Last year, hospital officials said, Dallas County spent $76.5 million to treat people from outside Dallas. Of that, almost $27 million was not reimbursed. ...

Currently, Parkland is reimbursed by the federal government for treatment of illegal aliens, but Parkland officials said that agreement covers only 48 hours of emergency care and falls far short of what expenses the hospital often incurs.

The hospital has spent more than a week figuring out how many foreign nationals have been treated and how much to bill each of the nations.

An estimated 90 percent of those affected are Mexican nationals, one source told The Washington Times.

John Gates, Parkland's chief financial officer, said he was in favor of sending the bills, though he doubted anybody would pay.

Get sick in Mexico without money or insurance and see what kind of treatment you get.

[Oracle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Oracle]

I'm not sure what the point of the flag-waving thing is in the quote. Even facists are permitted to fly their flag in this country because it's a first ammendment right. Should we deny that right to others? How about a flag-burning ammendment? Would that be ok too? I'm perfectly fine without that, in fact, I'm proud of the fact that at least this is one area where the government isn't permitted to tell us what we can and can't do. I'm not about to go out and burn the American flag, but the fact that its protected under the 1st ammendment says a lot about our system.

Again, not quite so:

American Flag Banned on Campuses Across the Nation
By Christopher Chow

As the stars and stripes fly proudly all over America, many colleges are banning the American flag and other patriotic symbols deemed to be "offensive." Marquette, Lehigh, Arizona State, Central Michigan, and Texas A&M are among the campuses where flag controversies have erupted.

Officials at Arizona State forced the removal of the Flag from the Sahuaro dining hall. When the student senate pushed for a bill to reinstate the flag, it was voted down.

Student senator Oubai Shahbandar, head of the school's College Republicans, refused to let the matter rest. He launched a massive local media blitz and contacted alumni. The response was one of outrage. Shahbandar told Campus Report that it took over a week of angry phone calls for Arizona State to put the flag back. "It took them after thousands of calls, e-mails all over Arizona, all over the country, alumni everywhere threatening to stop donating. In fact, we got word from a good source in the alumni association that the administration was poised to lose over $1,000,000 in alumni contributions and actually we were able to substantiate this when we had a couple of large companies in the area emailing us and telling us that they would stop contributing until ASU got its act together."

"[The alumni] are irritated about the flag not being displayed," said Leila Moustafa, of the ASU Alumni Association office. "Many are threatening not to contribute to the alumni association anymore."

Student Scott Marceau commented, "It's appalling that a piece of cloth that represents the freedom our country stands for was taken down."

ASU bought radio ads apologizing for the ban to help repair their reputation. Public Relations vice president Leslie Aun admitted that the school had made a mistake. "In retrospect, we made the wrong decision," she said. Sodexho Marriott, which runs the dinning hall, also released an apology, but stated they had reason to remove the flag because it was "insensitive to all the international students that live in the dorm."

Shahbandar added, "What's really interesting is that when the story first broke, our president Lattie Coor did not say anything about our American flag being desecrated. But that same day Lattie Coor managed to hold a rally outside the student service building for [Ahmad Saad Nasim] who faked that hate crime against himself."

Activism was also responsible for reinstating the flag's display at Texas A&M University, where the Residence Hall Association barred students from displaying the American flag outside their dorm windows.

[Icarus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Icarus]

Not quite so:Get sick in Mexico without money or insurance and see what kind of treatment you get.

Are you implying we should adopt third world standards and turn people away if they get sick when they are in the US? I guess everybody is entitled to an opinion and to express it courtesy of the 1st ammendment.

I guess I can ammend my statement, but from what I've read, illegals don't collect disability benefits, welfare benefits, medicare, foodstamps or social security benefits. They do use the hospitals and their kids are permitted to go to school.

The main point is that most illegals are here filling a demand for low-cost employees, filling jobs that legals don't want. If we really want to solve the problem, we have to eliminate the demand.

-David

[Icarus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Icarus]

ASU banning the flag is an absurd example. From the article you cited:

ASU bought radio ads apologizing for the ban to help repair their reputation. Public Relations vice president Leslie Aun admitted that the school had made a mistake. "In retrospect, we made the wrong decision," she said.

And the quote from Sohexo is even more absurd. It seems absurd that an international student would come to this country voluntarily for an education and then be offended by the display of the flag.

We still have a first ammendment right to burn the flag, but not necessarily in a cafeteria.

Did you just want to disagree with my opinions to make a point? What point are you trying to make? That you agree with the quote in the OP? It might be better to just say that than pick at pieces of my post and dispute them. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I don't expect it to be the same as mine.

My opinion is that the opinion/editorial cited in the OP is trash. Unless you're a native american, at one point or another we were all immigrants here.

-David

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

The recommended method for US flag disposal is burning. Makes you wonder just how bright some elected officials really are.

[Oracle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Oracle]

The recommended method for US flag disposal is burning. Makes you wonder just how bright some elected officials really are.

I don't have an issue with burning the American flag as long as it is your flag to burn. Once you buy it, you can do anything you want with it.

[Oracle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Oracle]

I guess I can ammend my statement, but from what I've read, illegals don't collect disability benefits, welfare benefits, medicare, foodstamps or social security benefits. They do use the hospitals and their kids are permitted to go to school.

Then you may want to read some more:

Steven Camarota, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, disagrees. The nonprofit, nonpartisan center seeks fewer immigrants but a warmer welcome for those admitted.

Camarota’s research shows a much higher percentage of immigrants use noncash welfare programs such as food stamps and Medicaid.

“And Medicaid is where all the money goes,” he says.

Camarota also argues that undocumented immigrants cost taxpayers billions in welfare dollars because their U.S.-born children qualify for some benefits. He agrees the children are not illegal themselves. “But the children’s presence is a direct consequence of their parents being here,” he says.

His 2002 estimates show that families of undocumented immigrants cost the United States $2.5 billion in Medicaid that year and more in other programs.

But, Fix says, those children are citizens and, by law, fully eligible for the benefits.

In addition, he says, children of undocumented immigrants are more likely to be uninsured and without Medicaid, so their health care could end up costing society more down the road.

We should allow these "anchor children" access to their rights as citizens only after they reach the age of majority.

[Oracle Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Oracle]

My opinion is that the opinion/editorial cited in the OP is trash. Unless you're a native american, at one point or another we were all immigrants here.

A good lesson is to be learned here, what happened to the native Americans? Do we wish to follow their history and have our country taken away from us? Yes, we took it. We should take proper steps to keep it.

[Icarus Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Icarus]

We should take proper steps to keep it.

As long as the demand exists ... workers will continue to flow across the borders.

Blaming those that are already here isn't going to solve anything.

-David

[JudyS Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JudyS]

.... if a burglar breaks into my home, he really becomes a guest who is only looking for a better life. Because he broke in for that reason, I must accept the obligation to provide him with living quarters, health care, education, and transportation.......
He has as much "right" to my house as I do, but I have to pay taxes he doesn't; because the government doesn't really know he is a "guest" in my house and I am not allowed to turn him in.....

He will get preferential treatment because he is a "guest" in my house....

If immigrants are allowed in under a "guest worker" program, then they are hardly breaking in, are they?

As for not paying taxes, currently many (illegal) immigrants pay taxes using fake Social Security cards, which means they pay into the system but never get any benefits. So, they are actually subsidizing the Social Security system. There are of course some immigrants who work "under the table", but there are citizens who work "under the table", too. I think the big reason there is so much of these off-the-books payments is that rules on employers are enforced.

As for preferential treatment, what do immigrants get that citizens don't?