Why?

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

If someone feels offended that they need to pay to become a member of TUG, well just don't go to their website!

Joe

I think you may have that around the wrong way?

The TUG BBS is free for all but TUG members have privileged access to things like reviews and sightings. Some TUG members do not like people who are not TUG members posting on the site as they regard these lesser people as freeloaders. So the TUG members who feel that way are the ones with the problem.

On another note, TSFMs does not abhor respect and rules. For instance, try swearing at someone or their mother and you'll see that the mods are not all asleep here.

The problems that are being discussed now are TUG problems, make no mistake about that. They are not TSFMs problems. They just spill over here because TSFMs allow respectful disagreements and for the most part, even public disagreement with this site. So TUG members who know they would not get anywhere raising their opinions and thoughts over there post them here. I see nothing wrong with discussing issues that crop up anywhere that members feel they want to discuss but as you can imagine, it causes quite a few headaches over here. Members should be free to discuss anything here without fear of reprisals from mods over there.

Members are not children to be seen but not heard and not be allowed to disagree or work issues through via discussion. We are all adults here. It is healthy to discuss issues that arise. Of course once it becomes an obsession, then that's a whole other story!

JMHO

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Here's Another Why?

Just Gone.

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

I will try to say this gently Jim - 'cause we know when to stop beating a dead horse?

Don't know. [there should be a shrug smilie]

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Just Gone.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

No, we should have Frank's monkey pee on one of the "more" icon in the reply "smiles".

Jya-Ning

[lawren2 Malibu Beach Barbie & A Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close lawren2]

I only found about about TS4MS recently (what does the MS stand for anyway?). I have been a member of TUG for about 2 years, and I have been glad to pay $15/yr membership. I feel that I have gotten more than my money's worth from all the great information I have gleaned. I think the TS4MS is good as well.

If someone feels offended that they need to pay to become a member of TUG, well just don't go to their website!

Joe

<disclaimer: I am removing my S Mod hat. these are my private thoughts and not something I would normally post as a moderator on this forum>

Ok stand back..... I've been holding back all day on this thread.

In 1998 right about when RCI went on-line I was pleased as punch to find TUG and happier than a clam to fork over my $15/year for the secret handshake and information.

So happy to learn from people. So happy to contribute. I even upped my membership at 3 years at a time thrice.

and people noticed.

and all those I helped get great RCI exchanges startled me and helped me get exchanges and last calls. Feeling the love was and is great.

I had thousands of Sightings posts OY which were never recognized by the moderators or owners. I was asked to come here and here I came.

A few months ago I posted OH and OY asking for recommendations for my Miami exchange and not a SINGLE person responded OY. Here I got many suggestions which my family enjoyed this month.

and now I have decided to go to guest status OY. and I will be shunned and denigrated because I am a guest? harumph. a guest who has probably forgotten more than most posters OY will ever know.

I have never understood the need to push membership on people or the "look down our noses it's a guest" viewpoint.

I offered my services they were refused. Here I am and here I remain and if I can be of assistance here or there I am available but thank you very much I won't pay for something I can write a book about.

[grest Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close grest]

So much to learn, so many interesting people, in both places...Connie

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Over there, they have guests and members and some members don't appreciate the non-paying guests, so that has to be where your commentary came from. A few years ago there were events that made some unhappy with the way things were handled over there and we were basically told to leave if we didn't like it. That led to the formation of TSTips and the subsequent migration here. It is understandable that many that came here did not like TUG or the way it was run and some are still fuming a bit, so inevitably subjects will come up. When they do, it's a red light for the moderating staff who are watchful that things don't get out of hand. We believe in allowing more freedom of expression here and do not like to edit posts and close threads but rather deal with any problems that come up privately. There doesn't need to be "a pissing contest", but there are many aggravating occurances that tend to foster it.

This is how I see it, too.

[Keitht Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Keitht]

Over there, they have guests and members and some members don't appreciate the non-paying guests, so that has to be where your commentary came from.

It used to be a common occurrence on TUG for non-replies along the lines of "If you want an answer, pay to become a member" to be posted. I have seen little, if any, evidence of that for a long time now. Even when it did happen, you could almost guarantee that the next post would be telling the OP that there was no obligation to pay membership. What made the actions of the 'pay-up' brigade even more ridiculous was the fact that after paying membership on TUG the status didn't automatically change from Guest to Member. There were numerous occasions where the OP would reply that they were a member. It was rare indeed for the 'pay-up' poster to come back with any form of apology.

A few years ago there were events that made some unhappy with the way things were handled over there and we were basically told to leave if we didn't like it.

The first 4 words say it all...."A few years ago" Why can't people move on? As Tonyg said, there have been 2 alternative sites since TUG. If you keep picking at a sore it will never heal.

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

Just some HOs

Like lawren2, I feel my money well spent, when help and information is being passed around that I can really use.

Several members contribute time and effort to keep site(s) orderly and interesting. That could be considered payment enough.

When sections of a site are withheld, if dollars aren’t paid, it rubs me somewhat. That’s when I have to decide if I will ever pay.
------------------------------

Designating members as Super, Member, Guest, Peeon, etc is understandable to some extent. When designations cause “I’m above you” viewpoints, I pull back. I may post occasionally, but it’s not a daily affair anymore. Discrimination isn’t welcome in my heart.
------------------------------

Sometimes I believe it would be better to send a private message rather than post nasty comments when one thinks another is voicing unnecessarily.
-----------------------------

How many points one has or how many posts may be nice but might be belittleing to some. All should post, no matter how little the membership makes you feel.
-----------------------------

Thanks for voicing, Von.

[The Conch Man Past Goumba President & BigFrank's Cigar Buddy! Find all posts View Profile Close The Conch Man]

Well said Y ~~ Can't say any more than that other than welcome to Timeshare Forums ~~

Didn't mean to upset you with my early commit ~~ Just that this all goes back a few years ~~ Some of it still goes-on but not like it use to be ~~ Yes ~~ I've come to terms with it as Big Frank commented-on ~~ It sometimes takes a big man to confess that the subject can & is do able ~~ Please continue to add your comments as you will get both ends of it ~~ Some bad Some good ~~ mostly bad but I do think Tug & TS4M's are closin the gap that has taken many years to get to this point ~~ Other times I don't think the gap is closin but this is "JMHOO" ~~

I would never tell you you don't know what you're talking about. I don't know you nor is it for me to make a value judgement for someone else.

For me, the money I paid for my first year of TUG was well worth it. I've since earned renewals that I think get me through this time next year, so I'm not into TUG for any more than my initial $15 payment. If I never have to pay again, I think my $15 was well spent and my personal value has exceeded the small price I have paid.

Of course, like you and others, should the time come that I need to dig into my wallet and pay for my TUG renewal, I will need to assess my own perceived value and decide whether or not I want to pay up. For now, that is a decision that is at least a year out.

[happymum Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close happymum]

The title of post #25 struck me as funny. Didnt a similar comment recently get someone in a great deal of trouble?

[The Conch Man Past Goumba President & BigFrank's Cigar Buddy! Find all posts View Profile Close The Conch Man]

Glad you took your hat-off ~~ That statement was you & I like that ~~ Wish some folks would do that both here & at Tug ~~ Expressin one's opinion is ok when the "hat" comes-off ~~ When you are moderatin ~~ keep common since bout the person(s) & the subject ~~ Things move-on as time passes ~~ Thanks again for your reply ~~ I for one like what ya said & I think it came from the heart ~~

Sorry I don't post here or OY other than a few replies ~~ Maybe as time goes-on that might change ~~ I sometimes feel the pain as Jim has described so many times ~~

<disclaimer: I am removing my S Mod hat. these are my private thoughts and not something I would normally post as a moderator on this forum>

Ok stand back..... I've been holding back all day on this thread.

In 1998 right about when RCI went on-line I was pleased as punch to find TUG and happier than a clam to fork over my $15/year for the secret handshake and information.

So happy to learn from people. So happy to contribute. I even upped my membership at 3 years at a time thrice.

and people noticed.

and all those I helped get great RCI exchanges startled me and helped me get exchanges and last calls. Feeling the love was and is great.

I had thousands of Sightings posts OY which were never recognized by the moderators or owners. I was asked to come here and here I came.

A few months ago I posted OH and OY asking for recommendations for my Miami exchange and not a SINGLE person responded OY. Here I got many suggestions which my family enjoyed this month.

and now I have decided to go to guest status OY. and I will be shunned and denigrated because I am a guest? harumph. a guest who has probably forgotten more than most posters OY will ever know.

I have never understood the need to push membership on people or the "look down our noses it's a guest" viewpoint.

I offered my services they were refused. Here I am and here I remain and if I can be of assistance here or there I am available but thank you very much I won't pay for something I can write a book about.

[JudyS Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JudyS]

It used to be a common occurrence on TUG for non-replies along the lines of "If you want an answer, pay to become a member" to be posted. I have seen little, if any, evidence of that for a long time now. Even when it did happen, you could almost guarantee that the next post would be telling the OP that there was no obligation to pay membership. What made the actions of the 'pay-up' brigade even more ridiculous was the fact that after paying membership on TUG the status didn't automatically change from Guest to Member. There were numerous occasions where the OP would reply that they were a member. It was rare indeed for the 'pay-up' poster to come back with any form of apology.....

Keith, I don't think you are referring to me specifically as a member of the "pay-up brigade." However, this post brought to mind that I have, on a number of occasions in the past, suggested to TUG BBS participants that they become paying TUG members. I hadn't intended to give anyone a hard time about not paying -- my suggestion to pay the $15 merely reflected the fact that many useful features of the site were available only to paying members. So, when someone asked for, say information as to the nicest resorts in Orlando, I'd suggest paying so that they could see the reviews. I wasn't trying to make anyone feel like a freeloader; I was just trying to help them access the information they needed. $15 seemed very reasonable compared to the cost of a timeshare.

However, when I made suggestions to pay the $15 to TUG, I was assuming that TUG was an all-volunteer site that needed people to pay $15 just to cover its expenses such as web hosting. What I have realized in the past two weeks is that TUG is in fact a money-making proposition for some of the people involved with it. It may even be the primary or sole source of income for a few people -- I don't know. This has left a very bad taste in my mouth. When I suggested to new members that they pay the fee to join TUG, I didn't realize I was advertising for a money-making proposition.

I actually see nothing wrong with Bill Rogers or his family making money off of TUG. I imagine they have invested a lot of their time in the site. And, in 2000 Bill said that he had also initially lost a lot of money ($10,000) in trying to establish a newsletter for timeshare owners, prior to starting TUG online. So, I can see where Bill and his family deserve to make some money from TUG. I don't have a problem with that. What bothers me is that most TUG participants apparently don't know that TUG is a money-making proposition. The recent problems with the new sign-in procedure take on a whole new meaning once one realizes that there are people making money off of TUG. Rather than just some missteps by well-meaning volunteers, the sign-in problems could be seen as an attempt by an income-generating site to protect its revenue base, even if it means paying customers have difficulty accessing the services they paid in advance to use.

The original question on this thread was why there is currently conflict between some TS4MS members and TUG. I believe that the issues involved in this conflict -- RCI's participation on TUG, guest versus paying TUG member status, and the recent suspensions from TUG of two TS4MS -- are all related. The stated purpose of TUG is to allow timeshare users to freely exchange information. The timeshare industry, unfortunately, has many liars and scammers. TUG was designed to allow timeshare users to cut through the obfuscations of timeshare developers and up-front fee listing services. While TUG still certainly is a valuable source of information, I think there are members here who don't feel TUG is still doing this as well as TUG should. Instead, some TS4MS members seem to feel that the "Ask RCI" forum actually makes it easier for RCI to deceive timeshare users. (For the record, I don't really agree with that feeling.) And, if TUG is a money-making proposition, those members who gave their time there thinking it was all-volunteer are liable to feel exploited.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

As a relative newbie that only goes back about 3 years, the thing that most stands out for me over the last couple days is the blatant lack of professionalism by one individual. Nasty, condescending, and just plain petty. I would have been better off not seeing that come over here. But it proves to me once again that this kind of thing does happen and if I speak up one too many times, the nastiness will point at Me.