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Should we have a pool on when $4/gal gas occurs?

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  • Should we have a pool on when $4/gal gas occurs?

    Gas prices hit record, will keep climbing for now
    Tuesday March 11, 4:56 am ET
    By Steve Hargreaves, CNNMoney.com staff writer


    Gasoline hit record levels Tuesday - and experts say it will likely continue to soar in tandem with the skyrocketing price of crude.
    The national average retail price for gas has risen 27 cents in the last month to $3.227 a gallon, matching the all-time high set on May 24, 2007, according to the motorist organization AAA.

    Gas prices hit record, will keep climbing for now: Financial News - Yahoo! Finance


    And experts say motorists should prepare to pay nearly $4 a gallon - and in some places even more than that - before the price of gas finally comes down in the late spring as high prices crimp demand.

    The price of gasoline usually increases this time of year. Several factors contribute to the runup: Low refinery output due to maintenance, a switch from winter to pricier summer blends, and the looming high-demand summer driving season.

    Experts say this time around the spike will be more pronounced, mostly due to the surging price of oil and, to a lesser extent, refiner's attempts to grow their profit margins.

    "It's all crude," said Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service. "The crude market is morbidly obese."

    Oil prices - which account for 80% of the price of a gallon of gas - have jumped 20% in just over a month as investors pour money into commodities of all types.

    Commodities like oil are seen as a hedge against inflation and the falling dollar - which has been trading at record lows - triggered by economic woes and interest rate cuts from the Federal Reserve.

    Oil, already trading near $90 a barrel on the back of strong global demand, took off in February as the economy worsened and the Federal Reserve cut interest rates with crude now spiking to record highs on a near-daily basis - settling at a record $107.90 on Monday.

    But as oil prices rose gasoline prices stayed stagnant and profit margins enjoyed by refiners shrank. Now those profit margins have become so small refiners have little incentive to make gasoline.

    "The refiners are saying, 'Hey we're not making any money,'" said Tim Statts, vice president of risk management for Summit Energy, a firm that buys energy for big users. "The gasoline price almost has to come up to continue bringing the product to market."

    According to John Kilduff, an energy analyst at the trading firm MF Global in New York, refiners are making about $6 off of every barrel of oil they turn into gasoline. That's down from over $38 a barrel last spring.

    Refiners are operating at just 85%capacity, down from a normal rate of around 90%, according to figures from the Energy Information Administration.

    Killduff said the low operating rate is partly due to refiners being shut down for maintenance but also due to the small profits they're getting on gasoline.

    "There's no market incentive to rush your unit back into production," he said. "[Gas prices] can't go any lower in relation to crude."

    So how high will gas prices go?

    While several areas will see prices over $4 a gallon, Kloza said he expects the nationwide average to peak somewhere between $3.50 and $3.75. Kilduff is calling for a high of $3.50, and Statts thinks we'll see the $3.30s.

    All three analysts think prices will peak early, in April or May, then decline as the economy worsens and demand for gas - already flat or falling - continues to deteriorate.

    "[The falloff in demand] that occurs around $3.25 a gallon takes a lot of the mojo out of gasoline," said Kloza. "These prices are real speed bumps for the economy."

    By July 4, when many Americans pack up the sedan and head for the mountains or beach, prices could be back around $3. If anyone can still afford a vacation.
    Lawren
    ------------------------
    There are many wonderful places in the world, but one of my favourite places is on the back of my horse.
    - Rolf Kopfle

  • #2
    I think it depends on where you live when it will hit $4. Yesterdau I was off Cape Cod and found self serve regualr for $3.039...on Cape it is $.25 more per gallon at most places. On the islands (Nantucket and MV) it is already almost $4.

    Joy
    “ Peace, if it ever exists, will not be based on the fear of war but on the love of peace. ”

    — Herman Wouk

    Comment


    • #3
      $4 a gallon is going to be tough for many people. What a shame.
      Angela

      If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

      BTW, I'm still keeping track of how many times you annoy me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Cali will probably be first to break that barrier. Thank God I will be in Laguna which is mostly a walking town this summer. I bought gas last week in NJ <10 miles away> for 2.96 here it is in the 3.30 range.
        Lawren
        ------------------------
        There are many wonderful places in the world, but one of my favourite places is on the back of my horse.
        - Rolf Kopfle

        Comment


        • #5
          It will either be Cali or the Cape and Island (Massachusetts). We are at $3.29 most places on Cape Cod away from the bridges and Nantucket is much higher. I'll call my friend on Nantucket today to get an update.

          J
          “ Peace, if it ever exists, will not be based on the fear of war but on the love of peace. ”

          — Herman Wouk

          Comment


          • #6
            Lee Vining, CA gas is $4.20
            Kaunakakai, HI gas is $4.14
            Cleelum,WA gas is $4.00

            Find Lowest Gas Prices
            Find Gas Prices on a Map
            and Obtain Driving Directions!

            Gas Prices – Find The Lowest Gas Prices Near You at Mapquest! Including BioDiesel and E85 stations.
            What I once considered boring, I now consider paradise.
            Faust

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Faust View Post
              Lee Vining, CA gas is $4.20
              Kaunakakai, HI gas is $4.14
              Cleelum,WA gas is $4.00

              Find Lowest Gas Prices
              Find Gas Prices on a Map
              and Obtain Driving Directions!

              Gas Prices – Find The Lowest Gas Prices Near You at Mapquest! Including BioDiesel and E85 stations.
              You win Ken.
              Lawren
              ------------------------
              There are many wonderful places in the world, but one of my favourite places is on the back of my horse.
              - Rolf Kopfle

              Comment


              • #8
                Hands down, Ken...ya got it!

                Joy
                “ Peace, if it ever exists, will not be based on the fear of war but on the love of peace. ”

                — Herman Wouk

                Comment


                • #9
                  I had heard on the news a few days ago that there was a station in San Francisco that was charging $4.23/gallon. Don't have any more information than that though.
                  Luanne

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    No....we turn our pool off during the winter as it gets too expensive to heat.
                    "If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.... If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
                    -- Thomas Jefferson to Col. Yancey, 1816

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Gas prices around the world

                      Think you pay a lot for gas? Perhaps you'd prefer to live in Venezuela.


                      NEW YORK (CNN/Money) – Gasoline prices in the United States, which have recently hit record highs, are actually much lower than in many countries. Drivers in some European cities, like Amsterdam and Oslo, are paying nearly 3 times more than those in the U.S.

                      The main factor in price disparities between countries is government policy, according to AirInc, a company that tracks the cost of living in various places around the world. Many European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline, said a spokesperson for AirInc.

                      In a few Latin America and Middle-East nations, such as Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, oil is produced by a government-owned company and local gasoline prices are kept low as a benefit to the nation's citizens, he said. All prices updated March, 2005.

                      Nation City Price in USD Regular/Gallon
                      Netherlands Amsterdam $6.48
                      Norway Oslo $6.27
                      Italy Milan $5.96
                      Denmark Copenhagen $5.93
                      Belgium Brussels $5.91
                      Sweden Stockholm $5.80
                      United Kingdom London $5.79
                      Germany Frankfurt $5.57
                      France Paris $5.54
                      Portugal Lisbon $5.35
                      Hungary Budapest $4.94
                      Luxembourg $4.82
                      Croatia Zagreb $4.81
                      Ireland Dublin $4.78
                      Switzerland Geneva $4.74
                      Spain Madrid $4.55
                      Japan Tokyo $4.24
                      Czech Republic Prague $4.19
                      Romania Bucharest $4.09
                      Andorra $4.08
                      Estonia Tallinn $3.62
                      Bulgaria Sofia $3.52
                      Brazil Brasilia $3.12
                      Cuba Havana $3.03
                      Taiwan Taipei $2.84
                      Lebanon Beirut $2.63
                      South Africa Johannesburg $2.62
                      Nicaragua Managua $2.61
                      Panama Panama City $2.19
                      Russia Moscow $2.10
                      Puerto Rico San Juan $1.74
                      Saudi Arabia Riyadh $0.91
                      Kuwait Kuwait City $0.78
                      Egypt Cairo $0.65
                      Nigeria Lagos $0.38
                      Venezuela Caracas $0.12
                      What I once considered boring, I now consider paradise.
                      Faust

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Do you mean a pool on when gas prices drop to $4/ gallon??

                        I'm old enough to remember the gas shortages of the early 1970s. Some classic economic lessons. At that time there were lots of dire predictions about what was going to happen. Pundits were predicting that oil prices would be over $100 per barrel by 190, and $3 gasoline was on the way.

                        Funny thing happened, though. As oil prices rose, people and businesses figured out how to get by using less energy. In economic terms, in the short term the oil supply and demand curve is inelastic. But over the course of five to ten years, the oil supply and demand curve is very elastic.

                        I do a lot of work on environmental permitting for industrial facilities. Right now businesses all over the US are responding to energy prices by authorizing capital projects to reduce energy usage or to find alternate fuels.

                        Companies authorize capital projects based on rate of return on invested capital. There's always a huge array of projects that just miss being authorized, but are kept in the hipper in case conditions change. Many of those are energy conservation projects that just didn't pencil out at $60/barrel oil, but are quite attractive at $100/barrel oil.

                        In the short term oil prices will continue to rise, but within the next two to five years they will collapse. If you trust your trading instincts, you should be able to make a nice profit for yourself by shorting oil at the appropriate itme.

                        The best signal for when to short oil is the time when all of the "experts" pronounce that we have entered an era of enduring energy shortages and permanent high oil pricing with $100/barrel oil only a distant memory.

                        As for me. I'm getting ready to sell my oil stocks. I bought them about a dozen years ago when they were cheap. They've given me nice dividends and great capital appreciation. But I always figure the time to sell is when everybody at the moment wants what I've got and when I buy I want buy things that nobody seems to want at that moment.
                        “Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”

                        “This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”

                        “You shouldn't wear that body.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I wonder what the prices are for the countries that are at the upper end of the spectrum currently compared to ours. I am traveling in northeast indiana prices are around $3.44 gal. Recently heard that americas oil comsumption has declined for the first time in history. But the prices keep on rising.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JMPM4
                            Recently heard that americas oil comsumption has declined for the first time in history. But the prices keep on rising.
                            Obviously information provided by someone who doesn't want the facts to get in the way of a good hypothesis. As I mentioned above, oil use declined substantially after the last big oil shock in the 1970s:



                            As shown, there was about a 20% drop in oil use after the oil price runup during the Ford Administration years. Oil use, in absolute terms, didn't rise above those 1970s levels for about 20 years. When you consider the growth in population and world economies, we are using energy far more efficiently than we were 30 to 35 years ago.

                            That increase in efficiency didn't happen because Gerald Ford appeared on television wearing his "W.I.N." (Whip Inflation Now) button, exhorting us to be frugal. And it didn't happen because Jimmy Carter lectured us about how bad we all were for being profligate. It happened because the price of oil went up and people and businesses wanted to save money. So they figured out how to get by with less.

                            There is no reason not to assume the same thing won't happen now. Within three to five years, oil consumption will drop below current levels and stabilize at a new, greater level of efficiency. Oil usage will then creep back upward as populations and economies grow.

                            Wake me up when there's real news.
                            “Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”

                            “This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”

                            “You shouldn't wear that body.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The average price for regular gasoline will hit $4.00 per gal by May 31, 2008 across America ( in all 50 states).

                              Petro in Europe is sold by the liter and not gallon.

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