Etiquette & other questions Remodelling contractores/workers

[(just) Marina (no K) Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close (just) Marina (no K)]

I'm on my 3rd set of contractors.

Contractor #1 was supposed to install new windows, reside the house with Hardieplank, retrim the house with Hardie or Azek products, redo the roof over the TV room, resquare the front window and take out the bay window and reframe the opening for 2 windows.

After installing most of the windows ... not the screens. They just put back the old storm windows and they didn't dispose of all the crap. They disappeared and when we complained to the City attorney, the contractor told the City lawyer that the job was finished and that he had to use his own money. Clearly, this is a lie. After he put that in writing, I took a picture of the house with a newspaper so that he couldn't argue as to when the picture was taken, plus, if you knew the whole story, I also have the city inspector as a witness!!! The City filed a complaint against us Julyish 2011, visited the house November 2011 to follow up and made a second follow up November 2012.

I don't like it but I understand that the contractor had a right to break/rescind the contract. Problem is that I feel he owes me money. According to him, he paid $500 per window and the sub-contractor was charging $125 per window to install. We paid 50% of the total cost. I know that contractor #2 paid $450 for the same window and didn't get a bulk discount. I'm going to ask contractor #3 whether his supplier would talk to me. Or, if someone here knows. How much is a "new construction" Integrity by Marvin window? It's a fibreglass framed window and I needed 17 at that time, November 2010. I'm suing Contractor #1. I would like to show that the contractor made a healthy profit by charging me $500 for a $450 or less window.

Contractor #2

Not happy with him. I feel that he owes me a refund (didn't do things he was supposed to like lifting the floor tiles in the bathroom), took advantage of me by overchargeing (paid a premium for jobs that I didn't get a quote for) and charging me for some jobs that were part of the contract. He also didn't do some things as well as he should, eg. I can't close my very expensive front window. He didn't resquare it like he should have.

Dr. K gave the guy who did the plumbing our 1936 Chrysler phaeton that we shipped over from Australia.

Contractor #3

Oh joy! Finally someone nice, who wants this to be a pleasant experience and show that not all contractors are shady and lazy.

Should I be giving them drinks? Snacks? Meals? Seems easier in the summer, when I just fill up a cooler with cold drinks.It's cold and the guys are bundled in layers. Offering a cold drink seems stupid. The guys usually eat in their trucks. I guess they have the heater & radio on and make calls. Should I invite them to eat inside? To me, by ordering that porta potty, they've drawn a line. I feel terrible and embarassed. I would much rather they eat their meals inside and feel that they could take a soda or snack.

When the job is over, do I tip the crew members (4 of them. all in their late 20's or 30's)? Money or gift card/s or beer/cigarettes? How much? Dr. K suggested $100.00 each.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

I do lots of remodeling with a few properties that I've owned over the years.
I have a crew that I work particularly well with.

I think it's always helped that I routinely buy them lunch and actually sit with them and eat, so I think it's appropriate for you to do also.
It helps build rapport and then they want to come and work for you instead of just dropping off materials and disappearing.

I even give them things that I might have given to goodwill.
Example, I gave away my bedroom set to one of the workers and the desk to the contractors son who wanted it.
I am giving them something that they wanted not junk for the heap pile.

The worker actually said to me this week that he likes coming to my place to work cause he feels very welcome here.
It makes a huge difference if the workers want to come back. You don't want to have to be chasing them down.
I usually tip them with buying lunch instead of cash at the end. I want to keep them happy as we go along.

[(just) Marina (no K) Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close (just) Marina (no K)]

Thanks for the reply and ideas.

If they come tomorrow, I'll tell them that Friday's lunch is on me.

With all the new cupboards I have, I have a couple of solid cherry dressers to give away. If they take them, it will actually be easier for me than taking it to Goodwill.

[easyrider Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close easyrider]

The workers are just being nice. Most dont want to become to familiar as you might find something you dont like. The lead man should have introduced him or herself and would be in charge of your questions. Trying to be nice and walking around the jobsite is a distraction to the workers. Our guys do not , eat, drink, use phones or bathrooms owned by a customer and should politely decline invitations to do so.
Sales staff are the total opposite of the workers as they need to have communication with the client in any way the client wants. The workers do like getting a happy letter for the boss. The sales staff likes referals.

Bill

[(just) Marina (no K) Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close (just) Marina (no K)]

The workers are just being nice. Most dont want to become to familiar as you might find something you dont like. The lead man should have introduced him or herself and would be in charge of your questions. Trying to be nice and walking around the jobsite is a distraction to the workers. Our guys do not , eat, drink, use phones or bathrooms owned by a customer and should politely decline invitations to do so.
Sales staff are the total opposite of the workers as they need to have communication with the client in any way the client wants. The workers do like getting a happy letter for the boss. The sales staff likes referals.

Thanks Bill. Contractor #1 (did 2 jobs) is a huge business & mostly builds apartment complexes which they own and as a side business, remodel private residences, using sub-contractors. They used our basement bathroom and accepted sodas & beer. It was the end of Summer.

Contractor #2 is a small company. The owner did the sales and when needed, he also did the work. They also did 2 jobs for us. The bathroom took a week. The kitchen took 3 weeks with breaks in between. They used the basement bathroom and accepted drinks.

Contractor #3 is also a smallish company, but rapidly expanding. The owner does the sales and occassionally, the work. He introduced me to the crew the first day. I mostly do my thing and let them do their. It took me a whole week before I walked out, while they were working. The lead guy stopped what he was doing to explain what they had done, what they were doing, problems they had encountered, things that would affect me like getting the Electricity company to cut the power(they're bringing in a generator to run my 3 fridges)etc. I have asked tough questions (things that I didn't like) and he's explained why things are done the way they are. As I'm typing this, the lead man is in his truck waiting for the others to show up!! It's bloody cold outside and I feel I should invite him in for coffee and/or breakfast.

I don't want to be friends with them. I just want to be courteous.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

If they take them, it will actually be easier for me than taking it to Goodwill.

And yes this is a bonus to you too.
But it was a win-win for me since they actually wanted it and brought it down the spiral staircase.

I work with a small time contractor so he has a very small crew and subs out stuff he doesn't want to do himself.
I only hang out with him and his assistants, I don't bother with his subs, they are just in and out for the stuff he doesn't do.
I've become friends with my contractor so we have sort of moved beyond just a business relationship.

I guess that's not the norm but he's such a genuinely nice guy and we just sorta hit it off 15 years ago and have done alot of rehab jobs together over the years.
He's also a great handyman to me and will come and do small jobs for me like putting up a ceiling fan or changing a water heater where he won't do it for others.
It helps that I was there for him when he was starting out. We did alot of rehabbing of rental properties and then reselling them.
I guess he remembers those days fondly. He keeps asking me, "when are we going to start flipping again?"

[(just) Marina (no K) Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close (just) Marina (no K)]

Just a follow up ...

I asked the lead guy to come in and offered him a drink. He declined explaining that one was his limit. I mentioned that the guys were free to come in the house, could take sodas, coffee & snacks any time. He explained their position on this. We then discussed the project.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

Just a follow up ...

I asked the lead guy to come in and offered him a drink. He declined explaining that one was his limit. I mentioned that the guys were free to come in the house, could take sodas, coffee & snacks any time. He explained their position on this. We then discussed the project.

What kind of drink? You don't want them drunk and getting hurt on the job.
I only give them water bottles, no beer.

[(just) Marina (no K) Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close (just) Marina (no K)]

What kind of drink? You don't want them drunk and getting hurt on the job.
I only give them water bottles, no beer.

It's always time for cocktails somewhere around the world. I only offered him coffee.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I try to deal with the same people when I do work. I get better work and prices when they are sure they will get called baack, I have had the same contractor for about 20 years. I do not even ask how much cause I told him if he ever over charged me I will no longer use him.

[(just) Marina (no K) Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close (just) Marina (no K)]

That's what I'm looking for ... a contractor/builder that I can call on for all future jobs, big or small, till I sell the house. Back in 2010, we made a list of things that had to be done to make the house more attractive to a buyer. Contractor #1 wanted to be our "go to" contractor but they went about it the wrong way. They figured that if they "forgot" to do something in the first job, we would call them back for a second job, and they would do whatever it is that they didn't do for the first job. I'm taking them to small claims court (in addition to the case I have against them regarding contract #2) for the things they messed up on the 1st contract .

With Contractor #1, we were newbies, and didn't realise we had some say, so when it came to building the kitchen, we went with Contractor #2, who had done the bathroom. I would have given him the siding job but, he didn't have much experience with James Hardie products, among other things. There were a few mess ups and overcharges (in my opinion) which I have kept to myself. After a delay of one year (my fault), he's coming back next week to finish up the kitchen/dining room switch. He knows that I didn't give him the siding job. I will be telling him why and that my current contractor spent the whole day taking out and putting back one of the windows he had installed.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

I try to deal with the same people when I do work. I get better work and prices when they are sure they will get called baack, I have had the same contractor for about 20 years. I do not even ask how much cause I told him if he ever over charged me I will no longer use him.

This is almost exactly the type of relationship I have with my go to man also.
I know he's not the cheapest but he's not the most outrageous either and I know he'll finish the job in a timely manner and it will be to my satisfaction.
There is something to be said for that. We only had a contract on the first deal that we did.
Honestly I don't feel that I've needed it since.

He does give me a verbal guesstimate of how much it will be and many times he just charges me his per diem rate which is cheaper than doing things by the job many times.
I think he's been fair with me and I to him and it just works.
It took me a while to find somebody like him.
We went through our share of crooks and drunks to be sure, but I feel blessed to have met him and I send him alot of referrals.

I hope you find someone too that you can work with for years. It sure helps the stress of being a landlord.