WOW - Congratulations Caitlyn (formerly Bruce) Jenner!

[LisaH Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close LisaH]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/mich...-johns-hopkins

At the first glance, I thought it was CBS. Upon further examination, it's CNS, which began as Conservative News Service. That's all I need to know...

[easyrider Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close easyrider]

This old man's opinion has been completely debunked. "Gender Identity Disorder" is no longer recognized and has even been taken out of the DSM-V (the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). But your reference is testament to the fact that trans* folks remain subject to overwhelming stigma and have a long road ahead.

So when a person in most situations feels some thing factual is not really factual, such as claiming the day is night and the night is day, that person is factually wrong and considered to have a mental condition. Why is it that a man can say I am a woman or a woman can say I am a man and this not be considered more of a mental condition. I don't accept the concept of gender dysphoria because scientifically it is not real, it is only a feeling.

Where does it stop. Should we as a society roll over for every whim of a disturbed mind ? What if a person decides they are not human and shouldn't have to obey the laws of humans ? Would this be an acceptable excuse to harm another or ones-self. The same reason we clinically treat people that would harm themselves or others applies to gender dysoria, imo.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

Do you object to others using their celebrity to advance social causes?

Yes.

I have nothing whatsoever against transgenders. Back in 1973, I worked very closely with a woman that was a transgender and we were good friends as well as associates. She had done the complete changeover.

[mpumilia Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mpumilia]

So when a person in most situations feels some thing factual is not really factual, such as claiming the day is night and the night is day, that person is factually wrong and considered to have a mental condition. Why is it that a man can say I am a woman or a woman can say I am a man and this not be considered more of a mental condition. I don't accept the concept of gender dysphoria because scientifically it is not real, it is only a feeling.

Where does it stop. Should we as a society roll over for every whim of a disturbed mind ? What if a person decides they are not human and shouldn't have to obey the laws of humans ? Would this be an acceptable excuse to harm another or ones-self. The same reason we clinically treat people that would harm themselves or others applies to gender dysoria, imo.

Exactly. I really don't care what other people do in this repsect- you want to pretend to be a woman or a man- knock yourself out. But I am against glorifying it - putting the person on a magazine cover with a 22 page spread and making him/her out to be some kind of hero. Making this out to be "normal". Our policemen are heroes; our firefighters are heroes; our military are heroes. Not this wacko.

Funny, I always say I was Celtic/Scottish in a past life. I love all things Celtic, including the music. However, I am 100% Italian and grew up in that culture- my father and both sets of grandparents were born in Italy. Yet, I am not "into" all things Italian (except the food! LOL!). Does this mean I can say I am Scottish because I relate to the Scots and that culture? Absolutely not! Nothing will change the fact that I am of Italian decent. Oh, wait....maybe I can start with changing my name and dying my hair red and.....LOL!

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

I am a closet Kardashian Fan. Started last summer when they filmed their show in my neighborhood and I initially watched to see how the area was presented. My DD also knows Scott from high school/college days.
Don't tell my family.

That said, there are MANY people who follow the lives of these people and having Bruce explain his journey publicaly has gone a long way in educating the public about this community.
As easy rider said earlier, this is one of the strangest threads he has been involved in.
That is a good thing, because somehow I think he now has knowledge about transgender people he certainly did not have before. It will take him a while (or maybe never) to come to accept these "differences" but now he knows they exist.

Is Caitlin and the rest of the K's in this business for the money? Well yes they are. They have never said they were not.
But openly discussing infertility issues, psoriasis, alcohol and drug abuse and now gender identity has got a lot of people talking about issues some had no knowledge of a year ago.
It is all good.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Exactly. I really don't care what other people do in this repsect- you want to pretend to be a woman or a man- knock yourself out. But I am against glorifying it - putting the person on a magazine cover with a 22 page spread and making him/her out to be some kind of hero. Making this out to be "normal". Our policemen are heroes; our firefighters are heroes; our military are heroes. Not this wacko.

Funny, I always say I was Celtic/Scottish in a past life. I love all things Celtic, including the music. However, I am 100% Italian and grew up in that culture- my father and both sets of grandparents were born in Italy. Yet, I am not "into" all things Italian (except the food! LOL!). Does this mean I can say I am Scottish because I relate to the Scots and that culture? Absolutely not! Nothing will change the fact that I am of Italian decent. Oh, wait....maybe I can start with changing my name and dying my hair red and.....LOL!

Unfortunately your opinion is not all that unusual. But it is entirely uninformed. I happen to do work with the trans* community and I can assure that there are many people whose gender identity does not necessarily match the gender they are assigned at birth. They are not pretending to be anything other than their authentic selves. Did you know that hundreds of thousands of babies are born each year with genital characteristics that are "atypical?" In many cases where it was noticeable, doctors used to perform surgery to repair the genitals so they looked more like whichever gender they were closest to, or whichever surgery was easier. Today, the accepted medical protocol is to give the child an androgynous name and wait for the child to self-identity a gender before performing any surgery at all. In many other cases, gender anomalies have been found on a more subtle level in DNA or hormones and the like. It is accepted fact that not everyone's gender identity matches their genitals. And most transgender youth self-identify at a very early age, and it continues throughout their lifetime. They are NOT pretending.

Thanks to Caitlyn, this conversation is going on the world over. Even if it's too late for some of the older generations to wrap their narrow-minded heads around it, hopefully our children's generation will be more accepting. And if you want some less "sensational" treatments on the topic, there is plenty out there. Here is a bit of a 101 for starters.

https://gaycenter.org/wellness/gender-identity

[mpumilia Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mpumilia]

Unfortunately your opinion is not all that unusual. But it is entirely uninformed. I happen to do work with the trans* community and I can assure that there are many people whose gender identity does not necessarily match the gender they are assigned at birth. They are not pretending to be anything other than their authentic selves. Did you know that hundreds of thousands of babies are born each year with genital characteristics that are "atypical?" In many cases where it was noticeable, doctors used to perform surgery to repair the genitals so they looked more like whichever gender they were closest to, or whichever surgery was easier. Today, the accepted medical protocol is to give the child an androgynous name and wait for the child to self-identity a gender before performing any surgery at all. In many other cases, gender anomalies have been found on a more subtle level in DNA or hormones and the like. It is accepted fact that not everyone's gender identity matches their genitals. And most transgender youth self-identify at a very early age, and it continues throughout their lifetime. They are NOT pretending.

Thanks to Caitlyn, this conversation is going on the world over. Even if it's too late for some of the older generations to wrap their narrow-minded heads around it, hopefully our children's generation will be more accepting. And if you want some less "sensational" treatments on the topic, there is plenty out there. Here is a bit of a 101 for starters.

https://gaycenter.org/wellness/gender-identity

Yes. I do know this. I was in girl scouts as a kid with a person that was born with female parts and a tiny male part that never grew/matured. She was not very feminine, but we still considered her a girl. Nice person. I am not narrow minded at all. I have a hard time believing, however, that Bruce Jenner performed his sport the way he did- competing with other men- and yet really is a woman.

[easyrider Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close easyrider]

Yes, many people are and were born with scientific and medically proven birth defects effecting their chromosomes. People with both male and female tissue, intersex , hermaphrodites or whatever term is now used, are the only scientifically proven transgender population.

A person that is not born with these conditions can not physically develop these conditions without the use of hormones, and even then it would not be same neurologically as a person born with these conditions.

The only proof that most people have that claim to be transgender is their feelings. How does this not fall into the realm of phycosis ?

[Pat H Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pat H]

I have no problem with people who are transgender. What I do have a problem with is that I don't believe for one minute that Caitlyn is doing this for the greater good and to help other transgenders. She is in it for herself and whatever fame, notoriety and money it will bring her.

[Luanne Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Luanne]

I have no problem with people who are transgender. What I do have a problem with is that I don't believe for one minute that Caitlyn is doing this for the greater good and to help other transgenders. She is in it for herself and whatever fame, notoriety and money it will bring her.

I can't imagine going through all of what she's going through for fame, notoriety and money. She could have gotten that just by sticking with the Kardashians.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I can't imagine going through all of what she's going through for fame, notoriety and money. She could have gotten that just by sticking with the Kardashians.

I think it's fair to say that it's a win-win for all. I am pretty sure she is working very closely with transgender advocacy groups in disseminating her message and story. I am also quite certain that her story is absolutely real. To the extent she enjoys some extra fame and income in the process, good for her. I do hope that when the dust settles and everyone stops talking about how gorgeous she is, more attention will be paid to the plight of trans folks who may not be so financially and racially privileged.

[Luanne Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Luanne]

I think it's fair to say that it's a win-win for all. I am pretty sure she is working very closely with transgender advocacy groups in disseminating her message and story. I am also quite certain that her story is absolutely real. To the extent she enjoys some extra fame and income in the process, good for her. I do hope that when the dust settles and everyone stops talking about how gorgeous she is, more attention will be paid to the plight of trans folks who may not be so financially and racially privileged.

What she said.

I think anytime a celebrity, or anyone, can bring attention to social, or medical issues, that might otherwise be swept under the carpet, bravo for them.

[Pat H Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pat H]

I can't imagine going through all of what she's going through for fame, notoriety and money. She could have gotten that just by sticking with the Kardashians.

I don't agree so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Luanne Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Luanne]

I don't agree so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I guess so.

But going through surgery, ridicule, etc., etc. what amount of fame, notoriety and money worth all of that?

[Pat H Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pat H]

Plastic surgery? She just said that she wasn't having her penis removed. I don't think she should be ridiculed for her choice, however, she's been on a reality show with the Kardashians for years. She's probably immune to being ridiculed. No one made a big deal when Chastity Bono became Chaz. Why is Caitlin any different? It sure wouldn't be worth to you or me but as they say in show business, "there's no such thing as bad publicity".