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Would you sacrifice your life for an empty vacation home?

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  • Would you sacrifice your life for an empty vacation home?

    Another question of the day, open for debate.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Report: Wildfire brings policy questions

    By GILLIAN FLACCUS, Associated Press Writer

    A blaze that killed five federal firefighters last year has emboldened those who question the cost of saving the ever expanding number of homes on the fringe of wilderness.

    The five perished last fall while protecting an empty mountain vacation home from the Southern California fire, which authorities say was started by a 36-year-old auto mechanic now charged with murder.

    However, the deaths also were blamed on social and political pressures and decisions to put homes before the safety of firefighters, according to a report from the California Department of Forestry & Fire Protection and the U.S. Forest Service.

    As another fire season heats up, some Forest Service officials say a shift in strategy is inevitable as firefighters increasingly risk their lives defending communities that have been built in prime fire territory.

    "We are not going to die for property," said Tom Harbour, national director of fire and aviation management for the Forest Service. "It's time for homeowners to take responsibility for the protection of their homes."

    Chief Forester Gail Kimbell would not say whether the service is considering a change in policy on defending homes in certain fire conditions, but the agency plans to address flaws in the response to the deadly fire in remote Twin Pines, about 90 miles east of Los Angeles, and is conducting a longer-term review of overall firefighter safety.

    Firefighters' attitudes also are an issue in protecting homes.

    Public expectations can sometimes lead to bravado and a cavalier mind-set among firefighters, experts say. A recent investigative report in the five deaths listed overconfidence, excessive motivation and risk-taking as contributing factors.

    "One of the standard fire orders states: 'Fight the fire aggressively having provided for safety first,'" said Peter Leschak, a 26-year firefighter and a commander for the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources' Division of Forestry. "There has been an argument recently to change that because we don't need to encourage firefighters to be more aggressive — half the time we're holding them back."

    Federal firefighters could scale back structural protection without too much political fallout, but that would not be easy for the California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, which answers to the governor, said John Maclean, a federally certified firefighter and the author of several books on wildfire disasters.

    The Forest Service spends 44 percent of its budget on wildfire suppression annually, he said, and much of that work means protecting homes where suburbs collide with wilderness.

    More than 6 million homes in California stand in wildfire "red zones" — areas defined in part by their thick brush and steep slopes — and that number is expected to grow by 20 percent in the next decade, according to a recently released insurance report.

    "There is an expectation on the part of a lot of people that somebody better get in there and do or die for their house," Maclean said. "If you stop doing that and you stop taking reasonable risk to protect structures, you'd have a new governor in about five minutes."

    David Kassel, who rebuilt his San Diego home after it burned in 2003, said he would be shocked if firefighters started backing off structural protection.

    "What is the purpose of the fire department? Are they just going to stand around and watch?" Kassel said. "If the structures are being left to the local departments to take care of, isn't that simply shifting the risk from one department to another? I wouldn't want to be the fireman who would say, 'I'm going to leave this to you because we can't handle something risky.'"
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed and those who are cold and are not clothed."
    -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

  • #2
    Not only do I not think they should sacrifice their lives for homes knowingly built homes in "brush zones," but I also resent having my tax money spent to fight fires for people who knowingly build in such areas.
    Fern Modena
    To email me, click here
    No one can make you feel inferior without your permission--Eleanor Roosevelt

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    • #3
      Let It Burn
      No Home Or ANY PIECE OF Property Is Worth A Life.
      What I once considered boring, I now consider paradise.
      Faust

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Fern View Post
        Not only do I not think they should sacrifice their lives for homes knowingly built homes in "brush zones," but I also resent having my tax money spent to fight fires for people who knowingly build in such areas.
        I have the same attitude, and I extend that attitude as well towards providing erosion protection for people who build second homes on barrier islands.
        “Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”

        “This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”

        “You shouldn't wear that body.”

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with the prior posters. No piece of property or "thing" is worth a life.

          My uncle was a Baltimore County, Maryland firefighter, now retired.; he can tell some stories of property owner stupidity.

          When one builds near areas with known dangers they should suck it up and realize they built there by choice and not expect others to risk life to save their property.

          Just my OHO.
          “ Peace, if it ever exists, will not be based on the fear of war but on the love of peace. ”

          — Herman Wouk

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          • #6
            Does this also apply to people that build in hurricane or earthquake areas?
            John

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Faust
              Let It Burn
              No Home Or A Peace Of Property Is Worth A Life.
              My sentiments exactly.
              Connie

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              • #8
                Speaking from the perspective of a firefighter's wife (Rick has been a firefighter for 32 years now, and we have been married 34 years), I must add that the job requires them to risk life and limb in saving lives and possessions from catastrophe. They are trained well and feel mostly confident they will get out of whatever situation--alive and uninjured.

                One year and a week ago, one of the firefighters at Rick's firehouse died in a house fire. His name was Rich Montoya, a very brave guy who was just weeks from retirement. The fire was a simple one, located on the second floor of an older house, but the house was so full of smoke,visibility was impossible, and the hour was early a.m., before the sun was up, so they were battling darkness as well as the fire and smoke. Three guys went upstairs together (rescued two young girls) on a hose line and only two came back down. The alarm went off on Rich's mask fairly soon after the guys went back downstairs. That alarm meant that Rich had fallen. They went back immediately to get him, his heart had stopped, several of the guys resusciated him and had him breathing before he went into the ambulance, but he died in the hospital several days later. He never woke up.

                The cause of the fire? Probably two teens who smoked pot late the evening before. The reason Rich fell? Likely the junk piled all over the house, with barely a path for moving from room to room and down hallways. They think a mattress fell from behind a door and knocked him down, he became disoriented, perhaps in the fall his mask moved just enough to allow smoke into his lungs instead of fresh air.

                Fires are not like they show in the movies. It is dark, the surroundings are unfamiliar, and there are people who have houses that are disaster areas. Homeowners should never risk their lives to save their own homes. I would make sure all of my photos (at least their negatives/CD's) and important papers were in a fireproof safe or in a safety deposit box at a bank somewhere. Our cats are worth saving, so we would definitely get them out, way before fire threatened our home, but without Rick's equipment and the firetruck, he would never try to save our house. He would let it burn, after all there is insurance!

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