Septic system proplems

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

Bought this house 5 years ago. The septic tank was supposedly pumped then, just before the closing.

System is now 55 years old and operating slowly. We recently had the tank pumped again plus had the drain lines flushed out.

With the econimic downturn, proposed sewer lines at the street, have shifted from within three years to ten.

A way of improving the waste system operation is being sought. Recently I watched www.septicgenie.com and thought that may be a simple resolution. Anyone have knowledge, pro or con of this or other septic aids?

We are seriously thinking of installing a grey water system for commode flushing. That may help somewhat. Anyone have a grey water system?

Robert

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

This is a crappy subject, Have you tried pouring sulphuric acid in the cesspool?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

A drywell for the laundry waste water could help, but in the "short" term I would just try a couple of rid-X treatments. Last time mine was pumped was 1977 and so far so good- tho I may pump in the spring to remove sludge.

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

Our washer water does not enter the septic system... authorized 55 years ago.

Soon the tubs, showers and bathroom sinks will be rerouted also for recycling.

York county is under the Chesapeake Bay Act so discharging of chemicals that may contaminate the ground water or eventually the Bay, is a crime.

Even grey water discharge is controlled, but that's a separate subject. I only mentioned waste water recycling as a way to lessen septic input water. The ground can only accept so much and it is apparently pretty near saturation.

Terra lift places fissure cracks in the soil, but carries only a one year warranty, so we'll go that route as last resort. (not cheap)

Septic genie and other aeration methods in theory should work.

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

This is a crappy subject, Have you tried pouring sulphuric acid in the cesspool?

You are so right. Now, if we all would just stop putting stuff in our mouths!!!
Outdoor showers may help but the family would most likely stink before using that method.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Looking at the site, this is just an aerator that fits inside the septic tank. That's the only thing that makes any significant difference.

There's a good chance the unit will accomplish what they claim, provided the system is not hydraulically overloaded. It will not fix things immediately, but improvements would occur over time, faster in the summer than in the winter.

****

Technically, this is what's going on. All organic waste is carbonaceous material that can be converted to carbon dioxide to produce energy. In a septic tank and leach field system, the bacteria that grow in the septic tank begin that process. There is no oxygen in a septic tank, so the conversion is not completed in the tank. Instead the partially treated wastewater flows into the leach field, where soil bacteria complete the process. The purpose of the septic tank primarily is to collect settleable and floatable solids so they don't plug up the leach fields, as well as to provide preliminary treatment to reduce the treatment load being imposed on the leach fields.

Septic/leach field systems fail when the leach field gets overloaded - not enough treatment occurs in the septic tank or the septic tank overfills with solids and the solids wash out into the leach field.

Installing the aerator in the septic tank will bring oxygen into the septic tank and should enable more waste treatment to occur inside the septic tank. This will reduce the load being placed on the leach field, and if the load reduction is sufficient the leach field will restore itself. The biomat that builds up in the leach field will be consumed by normal soil bacteria as the system begins to right itself.

[vintner Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close vintner]

Love it when you get technical. Makes my brain work with science stuff.

That all makes sense, but...if part of the problem (and I do not understand this real well) is even if the bacteria does a more complete of breakdown of the solids, all that liquid has to go to the leach field. If the leach field is not able to 'drain' then there still is a problem.

If I understand, the leach field would need to be expanded or changed out to allow for better drain or transfer of liquids or what ever the end process would be.

Am I right, or all wet (hopefully not in this case).

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

That all makes sense, but...if part of the problem (and I do not understand this real well) is even if the bacteria does a more complete of breakdown of the solids, all that liquid has to go to the leach field. If the leach field is not able to 'drain' then there still is a problem.

That's why I included the provision "that the system is not hydraulically overloaded". Hydraulically overloaded means that even if you were clean water through the system the volume of water is greater than what a properly functioning system can handle. Many older systems were probably underdesigned to start with, and then through the years people have made changes that increase the wastewater flow - adding a laundry room and increasing the living capacity (adding bedrooms) are the most common. Often those systems wind up with more water coming down the pipe than they can ever handle

But setting aside those situations and moving on to systems that are not hydrualically overloaded ....

When a system gets overloaded the leach field itself can plug with biological growths. This often occurs when there is not enough waste treatment occurring in the septic tank. Then more of the treatment shifts to the leach field.. If the load there is too great, a biological slime starts to grow in the leach field. The slime plugs the soil and starts causing backups, resulting in a drop in hydraulic capacity.

As I discussed above, when the aerator is installed more of the breakdown of wastes occurs in the septic tank instead of the leach field. If this reduces the waste load in the leach field sufficiently, the bacteria in the soil will revert to more normal conditions, and the slime will clear up. As the slime clears up, the hydraulic capacity recpvers.

What happens is that when the leach field is overloaded the normal soil microbes are overwhelmed and are replaced by other microbes that are acclimated to heavy waste loads. These are the critters that produce the slime. When the load is reduced sufficiently, the heavy waste load microbes no longer have an advantage, and the normal soil microbes reestablish themselves, consuming the other microbes and their associated slime in the process.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I'm sure glad they did'nt put this in Big Frank's hot tub.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I'm sure glad they did'nt put this in Big Frank's hot tub.

When Frank makes his bubbles, what's the difference?

[billymach4 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close billymach4]

So this is the source of that foul odor!

[RESORT2ME Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RESORT2ME]

"Breezes" don't blow from NY to Yorktown, thank goodness!

Thanks for the comments so far.

In all seriousness, this area is subject to the Chesapeake Bay Act, polluting ground water and the bay is a crime.

How the septic system works is understood. Our drainfield is accepting effluent, but is easily overloaded.

Washer water doesn't enter our septic system. If we get approval, our grey water will soon be going into a recycling system. This should resolve the overloading.

Meanwhile, I'm looking for an inexpensive means of correcting the satuated leachfield situation. The theory of the aeriation system is understood. I believe that would clear up our problem.

There are several aeriation products on the market, from simple to elaborate. Finding pros and cons from experienced members is what I am requesting.

[vintner Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close vintner]

From my thought process, and I with me being a city fellar, I only understand what I have seen on 'this old house' and learned on this thread, I only see a couple solutions.

I think the leach field really needs to recover. That would mean to (again, as I understand the situation) pump out the tank, maybe a couple times, so the liquids isn't getting to the field and let the field dry up.

You could dig up the old field which may have had problems which don't allow it to drain well and replace it, but that seems to be very expensive.

If you are using an additive to the system, that would mean (to me) that you are pushing the same amount of liquids into the field that is already saturated. The liquids may be in better shape because the bateria has done its job, but your field still doesn't have a chance to recover.

Okay, in this case, my opinion is as good as no opinion, but for some reason, I find this interesting. I think I need a vacation again to clear my mind.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

If you are using an additive to the system, that would mean (to me) that you are pushing the same amount of liquids into the field that is already saturated. The liquids may be in better shape because the bateria has done its job, but your field still doesn't have a chance to recover.

No - the leach field will start to recover as soon as the organic load to the leach field declines to a level that the leach field can handle without developing biological fouling.

Consider it this way. The leach field has acclimated to receiving a certain level of organic loading, which is food for the microbes. Biomass has grown to match that food supply. As soon as the food supply is cut, the microbe population needs to adjust to the reduced load. Less load means less microbes needed and the microbes start to starve. They respond by consuming each other and by consuming the organic slimes created under the previous high loading, until balance is restored.

If the aerator aerates the septic tank sufficiently so that the wastewater entering the leach field actually contains dissolved oxygen, the restoration process will be greatly increased.

In fact if the wastewater entering the leach field is aerated sufficiently to have dissolved oxygen the leach field will probably restore itself faster than if the leach field were simply removed from service. That's because more oxygen can be delivered to the fouled areas by wastewater entering the leach field than can be transported by diffusion of atmospheric oxygen through the soil.

[vintner Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close vintner]

So, in simple terms, are we saying that the field should be able handle normal flow, but it has become out of balance? So now instead of the liquids passing through the leach field, the field has the bacteria bloom / sludge that is restricting the flow. When the tank function is corrected with aeration, the feeding of the bacteria in the leach field is reduced, the sludge will be reduced by the bacteria and the field will resume normal function. Do I have that right?