Violence in Mexico NOT as Bad as 1990's--when few were afraid

[Pstreet1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pstreet1]

Interesting article in the Arizona Republic about violence in Mexico. It's not as bad now, with the drug wars--though it is more grisley now--as it was in the 1990's when no one seemed to be afraid to go to Mexico. The murder rate in Washington D.C. is 4 times the rate in Mexico City.

Definitely worth a read. Bloodshed in Mexico not as bad as in 1990s

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

How about that . . . I was gonna look for the other Mexican lawlessness thread . . . and you conveniently provided this new one. Thanks.

Reason is, I jet-skied over to our buddies' house the other night (the ones we met through a certain other TS forum and they decided to move here). They are really big Mexico fans, go every winter, and just bought more.

Turns out they had a crowd, two of them being a 60-ish, very well-traveled SOCAL couple. They have been traveling throughout Mexico for 40 years; it's been a big part of their life.

No more.

They told the most horrific stories . . . abducted, detained and held for ransom . . . cab rides way past the safety zone, past armed policia/militia stations to get to the nice locals beaches, only to find out the next day their cabby had been murdered (a drug cartel reprisal).

More bad stuff, but murder and kidnapping should be sufficient to cause concern.

They don't even go across the border any more, because, well, it starts right there.

I made a crack suggesting it compares to Detroit or other big American cities, and, of course, they just laughed. That didn't play well with them.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

From today's issue of USA Today: Mexican violence not as widespread as it seems

But a closer look at the latest official statistics indicates that much of Mexico has modest murder rates. The horrific violence that is jacking up the national death toll is largely in nine of Mexico's 31 states.

Despite a wave of killings in these states, the murder rate in 2009 was still lower than it was a decade before, long before the Mexican government began a crackdown against the cartels.

"If you look at history, today we have fewer murders, both in raw numbers and rates," said Mario Arroyo, a researcher with the Citizens' Institute for Crime Studies, a Mexico City think tank.

The statistics show that the most deadly violence is happening in northern Mexico close to the U.S. border where smuggling occurs, and in the states where marijuana and heroin are produced. Also:

• The state with the lowest murder rate is Yucatán, the Gulf of Mexico state known for its beaches and Mayan ruins. Its murder rate of 2 per 100,000 was comparable to Wyoming and Montana.

• Washington, D.C.'s murder rate is nearly quadruple that of the Mexican capital, Mexico City. Washington's murder rate was 31.4 per 100,000 people in 2008; Mexico City's rate in 2009 was 8.

Footnotes to the numbers

Experts caution that murder statistics give only a narrow view of crime. Mexico's 2009 murder rate was still more than twice as high as the U.S. rate.

The statistics also do not take into account extortion, robbery or other offenses. Some anti-crime groups say Mexico City is No. 1 in the world in kidnappings for ransoms or cash that a victim is forced to withdraw from ATMs.

[Pstreet1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pstreet1]

That's true, it's more than twice as high as the U.S. as a whole--but it's been worse and is getting better. Interestingly, Jamaica's is 60, and Mexico's is 11 or 12, compared to the U.S. at about 5 or 6--yet no warnings about going to Jamaica. Trinidad comes in at 40; Belize at about 32, Brazil about 22, Russia about 111.5, England and Wales, practically nill, Switzerland, nill and Japan is even less than nill.

Still, one has to wonder why there aren't huge alarms out about Jamaica.

As to your friends' experience, that would be scary, no question about it. But scary things happen to people in the U.S., too. I know a lot of people who live in Mexico (in one of the scary areas accoring to the press and the figures) and no one has had a problem. Lucky? Maybe. Or perhaps your friends were just extremely unlucky.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Jamaica was also on their list of places they no longer travel to. I had grandparents-in-law who were abducted, abused, and held for ransom there 40 years ago.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

That's true, it's more than twice as high as the U.S. as a whole--but it's been worse and is getting better. Interestingly, Jamaica's is 60, and Mexico's is 11 or 12, compared to the U.S. at about 5 or 6--yet no warnings about going to Jamaica. Trinidad comes in at 40; Belize at about 32, Brazil about 22, Russia about 111.5, England and Wales, practically nill, Switzerland, nill and Japan is even less than nill.

OOO, did someone say gun control?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

OOO, did someone say gun control?

Not until now and any further digressions into a political discussion other than in the political forum could get the guy that started it in trouble.

I have never been to Jamaica, but it is one place where I would go with all-inclusive only and suggest others do so as well.

[Pstreet1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pstreet1]

Typo on Russia: not 111.5, 11.5

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

If it makes y'all feel better, we do not plan to vacation in Detroit either.

Or Russia.

Or Brazil.

Or Belize.

Or Trinidad.



If I want to be harassed and abused, I can stay right where I'm at.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

NBC Nightly News did a Mexico violence story tonight, but it is not online yet.

Here's a recent one:

Mexico: 28,000 killed in drug violence since 2006 - NBC-2.com WBBH News for Fort Myers, Cape Coral & Naples, Florida

[Pstreet1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pstreet1]

That's the standard figure being used. Read the article from the Arizona Republic. The murder rate was higher back in the 1990's, when no one worried about going to Mexico. Now, it's getting more coverage, and people are afraid to go--power of the press. (And I'm certainly not maintaining that it's a good thing to kill 28,000 people--but the press does blow it out of proportion compared to other spots, like New Orleans.)

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

That's the standard figure being used. Read the article from the Arizona Republic. The murder rate was higher back in the 1990's, when no one worried about going to Mexico. Now, it's getting more coverage, and people are afraid to go--power of the press. (And I'm certainly not maintaining that it's a good thing to kill 28,000 people--but the press does blow it out of proportion compared to other spots, like New Orleans.)

From my perch, there is one additional significant consideration. The national government of Mexico has, in effect, declared war on the drug lords. that are operating within the country and that have essential taken control of portions of the country The consequence is that there is a civil war underway.

As with any war, there are high levels of violence in the combat zone, and particularly among the combatants in the warfare. Further, the most odious elements of the violence in Mexico are almost entirely associated with that warfare.

If in the US we similarly decided that we were going to root out and eliminate gang control in the parts our country in which gangs have become the de facto government, our rates of murder and mayhem would certainly increase as an armed struggle for control broke out.

******

So, to my thinking, when we consider the situation of violence in Mexico I think we should try to keep in mind that portion that is particularly associated with the drug war and that portion that is, shall we say, "endemic". As JWC has oft mentioned, there is much "endemic" crime in Mexico that is never reported.

But much of that is property crime, robbery, and assaults that occur outside of the main tourist areas. As far as the killings and mayhem that make the headlines, those are distinct from most tourist involvement unless, as a tourist, one gets close to the warring factions. Simultaneously, if you choose to be involved in portions of the country that are outside the traditional tourist locations, like any area you run the risk of greater violence. But that's just like in most areas of the world, including the US. If you stay in the well-known tourist venues, you will generally be safe. If you venture outside those areas and get into areas where tourists don't ordinarily go, you could quickly find yourself in difficult situations.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

As our neighbors/friends, whom accompanied us to SOCAL (Carlsbad Inn for a Chiefs/Chargers game) way back when, said when we invited them to daytrip to Ensenada, with breakfast on Rosarita Beach, "No way in Hell!!! No way we are going someplace where the government may be overthrown while we are there, and we will be stranded with no civil rights!!!"
- - - - - -

"Most all good Mexicans hate Yankees."

[muranojo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close muranojo]

Almost 3000 people lost their lives in NYC 9/11, yet MC is a coveted t/s trade.

I'll take my chances as there are risks no matter where you go--I don't like the option of staying in a basement bomb shelter.