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Another study/global warming & rising seas

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  • Another study/global warming & rising seas

    Anybody who has a baby these days must be wondering if they're bringing a child into a world that will look like the movie "Road Warrior". Of course if they never saw that movie, they might not think about how ugly the future could get.

    Anyway, journal of Science has published yet another study on melting of polar icecaps & rising seas. Here's the link to the NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/24/sc...=1&oref=slogin

    March 24, 2006
    Climate Data Hint at Irreversible Rise in Seas
    By ANDREW C. REVKIN

    Within the next 100 years, the growing human influence on Earth's climate could lead to a long and irreversible rise in sea levels by eroding the planet's vast polar ice sheets, according to new observations and analysis by several teams of scientists.

    One team, using computer models of climate and ice, found that by about 2100, average temperatures could be four degrees higher than today and that over the coming centuries, the oceans could rise 13 to 20 feet — conditions last seen 129,000 years ago, between the last two ice ages.

    The findings, being reported today in the journal Science, are consistent with other recent studies of melting and erosion at the poles. Many experts say there are still uncertainties about timing, extent and causes.

    But Jonathan T. Overpeck of the University of Arizona, a lead author of one of the studies, said the new findings made a strong case for the danger of failing to curb emissions of carbon dioxide and other gases that trap heat in a greenhouselike effect.

    "If we don't like the idea of flooding out New Orleans, major portions of South Florida, and many other valued parts of the coastal U.S.," Dr. Overpeck said, "we will have to commit soon to a major effort to stop most emissions of carbon to the atmosphere."

    According to the computer simulations, the global nature of the warming from greenhouse gases, which diffuse around the atmosphere, could amplify the melting around Antarctica beyond that of the last warm period, which was driven mainly by extra sunlight reaching the Northern Hemisphere.

    The researchers also said that stains from dark soot drifting from power plants and vehicles could hasten melting in the Arctic by increasing the amount of solar energy absorbed by ice.

    The rise in sea levels, driven by loss of ice from Greenland and West Antarctica, would occur over many centuries and be largely irreversible, but could be delayed by curbing emissions of the greenhouse gases, said Dr. Overpeck and his fellow lead author, Bette L. Otto-Bliesner of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo.

    In a second article in Science, researchers say they have detected a rising frequency of earthquakelike rumblings in the bedrock beneath Greenland's two-mile-thick ice cap in late summer since 1993. They say there is no obvious explanation other than abrupt movements of the overlying ice caused by surface melting.

    The jostling of that giant ice-cloaked island is five times more frequent in summer than in winter, and has greatly intensified since 2002, the researchers found. The data mesh with recent satellite readings showing that the ice can lurch toward the sea during the melting season.

    The analysis was led by Goran Ekstrom of Harvard and Meredith Nettles of the Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory in Palisades, N.Y., part of Columbia University.

    H. Jay Zwally, a NASA scientist studying the polar ice sheets with satellites, said the seismic signals from ice movement were consistent with his discovery in 2002 that summer melting on the surface of Greenland's ice sheets could almost immediately spur them to shift measurably. The meltwater apparently trickles through fissures and lubricates the interface between ice and underlying rock.

    "Models are important, but measurements tell the real story," Dr. Zwally said. "During the last 10 years, we have seen only about 10 percent of the greenhouse warming expected during the next 100 years, but already the polar ice sheets are responding in ways we didn't even know about only a few years ago."

    In both Antarctica and Greenland, it appears that warming waters are also at work, melting the protruding tongues of ice where glaciers flow into the sea or intruding beneath ice sheets, like those in western Antarctica, that lie mostly below sea level. Both processes can cause the ice to flow more readily, scientists say.

    Many experts on climate and the poles, citing evidence from past natural warm periods, agreed with the general notion that a world much warmer than today's, regardless of the cause of warming, will have higher sea levels.

    But significant disagreements remain over whether recent changes in sea level and ice conditions cited in the new studies could be attributed to rising concentrations of the greenhouse gases and temperatures linked by most experts to human activities.

    Sea levels have been rising for thousands of years as an aftereffect of the warming and polar melting that followed the last ice age, which ended about 10,000 years ago. Discriminating between that residual effect and any new influence from human actions remains impossible for the moment, many experts say.

    Satellites and tide gauges show that seas rose about eight inches over the last century and the pace has picked up markedly since the 1990's.

    Dr. Overpeck, the co-author of the paper on rising sea levels, acknowledged the uncertainties about the causes. But he said that in a world in which humans, rich and poor, increasingly clustered on coasts, the risks were great enough to justify prompt action.

    "People driving big old S.U.V.'s to their favorite beach or coastal golf course," he said, should "start to think twice about what they might be doing."
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed and those who are cold and are not clothed."
    -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

  • #2
    Hope a lot of people read this and start putting their ocean front property on the market at a bargain price. It is unreal what they want for it now and in a 100 years it will be under water. Maybe should stop buying ocean front timeshares or for that matter, timeshares even close to the ocean - head for the mountains!

    Comment


    • #3
      Global warming & rising oceans is why I sold my Peregrine week, frankly. I read a study a coupla years ago that said the waters of the Gulf of Mexico would rise a foot in 100 years. That part of Texas is a magnet for hurricanes *now*, and I didn't want to pay more special assessments. Hated to sell it though...it's a tiger trader in RCI if you own the right week.
      "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed and those who are cold and are not clothed."
      -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

      Comment


      • #4
        This morning, the London Times has a similair article. Seems the world is finally taking global warming seriously.

        An excerpt:

        London 'under water by 2100' as Antarctica crumbles into the sea
        By Mark Henderson, Science Correspondent

        DOZENS of the world’s cities, including London and New York, could be flooded by the end of the century, according to research which suggests that global warming will increase sea levels more rapidly than was previously thought.
        Angela

        If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

        BTW, I'm still keeping track of how many times you annoy me.

        Comment


        • #5
          I was thinking more like that great blockbuster of a movie with Kevin Costner.....Water World.....I am already shopping for used sail boats.

          Originally posted by Carol C
          Anybody who has a baby these days must be wondering if they're bringing a child into a world that will look like the movie "Road Warrior". Of course if they never saw that movie, they might not think about how ugly the future could get.
          "If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.... If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
          -- Thomas Jefferson to Col. Yancey, 1816

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 4ARedOctober
            I was thinking more like that great blockbuster of a movie with Kevin Costner.....Water World.....I am already shopping for used sail boats.
            Why don't you build an ark so at least you can take some breeding animal pairs along for the ride? And oh, don't forget plants, too. You can't exist on this planet with all the other species wiped out. The Earth is a biosphere, after all.
            "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed and those who are cold and are not clothed."
            -- Dwight D. Eisenhower

            Comment


            • #7
              It's a good idea to drive cars that use less gasoline or be kind to Mother Earth, especially if you have children. Our generation owes it to them.

              On the other hand, half the world was once covered with ice and now we are in a reversed cycle or trend. When you are in Arizona, they tell you jokingly that it will be ocean front property one day because of the next big earthquake in California. However, I would worry first about the Florida coast and where the hurricanes hit just recently than about an earthquake here but we all know that it is coming.

              We all notice too that the weather is changing and the normal seasons seem to have gone away and it is warm where it should be cold or visa versa.

              Comment


              • #8
                So why are we trying to rebuild New Orleans???

                Originally posted by Carol C
                Global warming & rising oceans is why I sold my Peregrine week, frankly. I read a study a coupla years ago that said the waters of the Gulf of Mexico would rise a foot in 100 years. That part of Texas is a magnet for hurricanes *now*, and I didn't want to pay more special assessments. Hated to sell it though...it's a tiger trader in RCI if you own the right week.
                "If a Nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.... If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed."
                -- Thomas Jefferson to Col. Yancey, 1816

                Comment


                • #9
                  A very good question- but there really isn't a heck of a lot of rebuilding going on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This should do wonders for our property values in Wisconsin.
                    Trying to tax a nation into prosperity is like standing in a bucket and trying to lift yourself by the handles.
                    - Winston Churchill

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Never buy beachfront property when the address is 2nd Street. . .

                      Seriously, its hard to know what to make of this global warming stuff. It proponents base their arguments mostly on computer models, and computer models can be set to prove about anything one wishes. Its opponents argue that there are natural cycles that we can't do anything about anyway but everything will eventually swing back and even things out. Of course, if it doesn't swing back, we are in a heap of trouble.

                      If the so-called greenhouse gasses are part of the problem, then there is a huge problem because manufacturing is shifting to places like Red China, which will gladly tell us to stick our environmental regulations in our ear. If we go it alone on regs without China and India having to obey the same rules, then we will drive even more manufacturing to those countries where environmental regulation is and will continue to be joke. Its a no win situation.

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                      • #12
                        This is so true and the smog is already hanging over the Indian ocean and the winds bring it to the West coast of the USA too. I read a whole article about it with photos showing too how bad it is already from earlier years but can't find the article now. I would worry so much if I had young children as they are growing up in a world that's unfit to live in.

                        We cannot do it alone and all countries have to do it together. We have been the biggest polluters for many years. Now, we are getting back what we have done to others. The same for the toxins (DDT and chemicals) in the food supply because we are sending it to other countries while the DDT is banned here but it will haunt us later too because the ocean will bring it here. I get so depressed sometimes when I read all this news so come here to forget about it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Observed climate trends

                          http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/trends.htm
                          What I once considered boring, I now consider paradise.
                          Faust

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Overall energy usage?

                            A few questions:

                            What if you own an SUV but live 2 miles from work? Are you a bigger problem than the person with the hybrid who drives 20 miles to work each day?

                            What if you own a car that gets 26 mpg, but live in a 3,000 sq. foot house that has to be heated, and someone else lives in a 1,500 sq. foot house and drives a car that gets 15 mpg? Who's the bigger problem?

                            What if you own a vacation home that has to be heated? What if you own an extra car you don't need?

                            What about using electricity to power your television and your computer to surf the internet?

                            I don't mean to sound harsh, but if folks on this board are very concerned about global warming, why are they riding in planes, burning jet fuel flying to remote places around the globe purely for recreation?

                            I'm always fascinated by Hollywood celebrities who own 5 homes, ride in limousines, fly around in private jet planes, and then get on the television to warn us about selling our SUV's to save the planet.

                            For some reason the solution to global warming always involves someone else changing their behavior.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              cluemeister

                              "For some reason the solution to global warming always involves someone else changing their behavior."


                              If we are ever going to be successful in finding a solution to the greenhouse gas emissions contributing to global warming, it will take a global effort.

                              It is a much larger problem than what kind of car you drive, although that will also make a differnce.

                              Governments, and Industries will need to work together. Science will need to be implemented. We will all need to make some sacrafices.

                              It doesn't appear we really have a choice.
                              Angela

                              If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

                              BTW, I'm still keeping track of how many times you annoy me.

                              Comment

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