Good teams in the AL vs NL

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

The Seattle Mariniers enter the all-star break with a .576 winning percentage. This makes them the 5 place team in the AL.

They would have the best record in the NL.

What is with the teams in the NL?

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

They want to make sure they sell more tickets. Anyway, they will face only one AL team, so no need to worry about the merely statistic at this moment now.

Beside, they are more balance because most team managers are better.

Jya-Ning

[dawg Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dawg]

It seems that National League doesn't have many owners willing to over pay for players like the American league has.

I have always thought that Seattle would be a very competitive in the National League. We usually fair pretty well in inter league play. With Seattle's ownership, I don't think that we will ever be consistently competitive. We will have an occasional good season, but that is about it.

Dawg

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

It would be nice to see the M's to lock up Ichrio the way that the White Soxs did with their pitcher, Buehrle.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

It would be even better if they had the cajones to admit that Vidro is washed up and that they totally blew it when they brought him in.

While they're at it, they should also recognize that Ibañez is a disaster in left field and can longer hit left handed pitchers. Also that Ben Broussard torches right handed pitching and should get most of the time at 1b against RH pitchers.

The current team has managed to crawl back into contention, but has significant holes to fix to have a realistic chance of staying in the race. There's little in the past to suggest that they will aggressively move to fill the holes.

Unfortunately, even if the Mariners recognized the weaknesses and decided to fill them we would still have mixed feelings. Bavasi is one of worst GMs in baseball in the trade market. Bavasi has been an active trader,but despite his activity the most favorable trade he's made is the remnants of Dave Hanson's carcass for Jon Huber. Virtually every other deal he's made has ranged from mixed to disaster.

So even if they recognize the problems, there is reason to be afraid.

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

the M's also have Adam Jones in AAA, who is rated the best prospect in all the minor leagues.

WHY IS HE NOT ON THE TEAM!!

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Believing themselves validated by the team's performance this half season, the Mariners Front Office has recommenced work on this project that had been stalled since 2003. I understand galley proofs are due in about one more month.

[Elan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Elan]

The Seattle Mariniers enter the all-star break with a .576 winning percentage. This makes them the 5 place team in the AL.

They would have the best record in the NL.

What is with the teams in the NL?

I believe it may be related to the AL having 7 of the top 10 payrolls in 2007 (according to USA Today). The evil empires of the Yankees and BoSox clearly head the list, and the only 3 NL teams to crack the top 10 are the Mets, Dodgers and Cubbies (#'s 3, 6 & 8 respectively). The Mariners are 7th overall in payroll and 5th in the AL, BTW.

Jim

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

I believe it may be related to the AL having 7 of the top 10 payrolls in 2007 (according to USA Today). The evil empires of the Yankees and BoSox clearly head the list, and the only 3 NL teams to crack the top 10 are the Mets, Dodgers and Cubbies (#'s 3, 6 & 8 respectively). The Mariners are 7th overall in payroll and 5th in the AL, BTW.

Jim

A team's payroll is no guarantee of success nor failure. The Oakland A's have consistently put a very competitive team on the field for the last several years with one of the lowest payrolls, if not the lowest.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I think the presence of the Yankees and, to a lesser extent, the Red Sox has forced teams in the AL to work harder to be able to compete.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

I think the presence of the Yankees and, to a lesser extent, the Red Sox has forced teams in the AL to work harder to be able to compete.

I don't believe that is true. With few exceptions, every owner is going to try and put the best team on the field. The Atlanta Braves have been the most consistent winners over the past several years though they have only won the World Series once. The team's GM has a lot to do with how good a team they field and the Braves have the best. The San Diego Padres have a very competitive team with a low payroll and only 2 super stars and they are both pitchers. The manager is also a major factor. The Yankees with the highest payroll in baseball, were not consistent winners since the 50's and early 60's until Joe Torre came along. The Braves and the Yankees, have arguably the 2 best managers in baseball in Joe Torre and Bobby Cox.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I disagree. Despite the Braves record of success, they simply have not dominated the NL the way the Yankees did in the AL starting in about 1966. In the NL there simply has not been the same league-wide added impetus to wring out that extra bit of performance just to stay at the top as there has been in the AL.

I've seen it happen often in business operations - no matter how good a company thinks they are the emergence of a formidable competitor causes businesses the sharpen their skills operations. I don't see why baseball operations should be any different.

Teams in the NL simply have not faced the level of competition to reach the World Series as have teams in the AL. Should a team emerge in the NL that is as dominant as the Yankees, the pendulum will swing.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

I disagree. Despite the Braves record of success, they simply have not dominated the NL the way the Yankees did in the AL starting in about 1966. In the NL there simply has not been the same league-wide added impetus to wring out that extra bit of performance just to stay at the top as there has been in the AL.

I've seen it happen often in business operations - no matter how good a company thinks they are the emergence of a formidable competitor causes businesses the sharpen their skills operations. I don't see why baseball operations should be any different.

Teams in the NL simply have not faced the level of competition to reach the World Series as have teams in the AL. Should a team emerge in the NL that is as dominant as the Yankees, the pendulum will swing.

The Yankees have not been as dominant as you think since 1966. Their most dominant era was in 1950's. The Yankees have won the series 6 times since 1966 with 3 of those wins coming with Joe Torre as manager. The Yankees were beaten in their last 2 series appearances by the Marlins and the Diamondbacks. The last 6 World series are split 3-3 between the NL and AL.

This is a link to World Series history.

World Series Winners

It is true that the AL has been dominant in the past 10 years having won 10 consecutive All Star Games and 6 out of the last 10 World Series. The NL have still won more All Star games overall. I am not arguing that the NL is better. I am simply saying that spending money alone does not guarantee success. The GM and Manager are a bigger factor than having a team loaded with super stars. The Yankees appeared in only 1 World Series, that they lost, from 1979 to 1995 and they had the largest payroll loaded with super stars.

[Elan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Elan]

A team's payroll is no guarantee of success nor failure. The Oakland A's have consistently put a very competitive team on the field for the last several years with one of the lowest payrolls, if not the lowest.

There was no mention of "guarantee".

Here's a little data (as of 7/17/07): Of the bottom 10 payrolls in 2007 (again, according to USA Today), only 4 teams have winning records, and 4 of the 6 divisional "cellar dwellers" come from the bottom 10. Of the top 10 payrolls in 2007, 8 of the 10 teams have winning records, and 5 of the current division leaders reside in the top 10 payroll list. I would invite you to plot wins vs payroll and see what correlation coefficient you derive.

I'm well aware of what Billy Beane has accomplished with the A's, and he's to be commended for over achieving. But it should also be noted that the A's have been no lower than 23rd in payroll (out of 30 teams) in the last 5 years, and are 17th this year. The perception that they're very near the bottom in payroll is merely that..............perception.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

It is true that the AL has been dominant in the past 10 years having won 10 consecutive All Star Games and 6 out of the last 10 World Series. The NL have still won more All Star games overall. I am not arguing that the NL is better. I am simply saying that spending money alone does not guarantee success. The GM and Manager are a bigger factor than having a team loaded with super stars. The Yankees appeared in only 1 World Series, that they lost, from 1979 to 1995 and they had the largest payroll loaded with super stars.

John - nowhere did I mention payroll. Payroll does not guarantee success, as the record of the Baltimore Orioles certainly attests.

From 1996 through 2001 the Yankees simply dominated the AL - through a combination of payroll and acumen. Interesting to note that they started losing at after 2001, when they really went into free agent signing in earnest. The dominant Yankee teams were built largely on home-grown talent, supplemented with key free agent acquisitions. When they started making free agent acquisitions the primary team construction method, they lost their dominance.

The seeds of the Yankees success from 1996 - 2001 was actually founded on Steinbrenner's suspension from baseball from 1990 - 1993. With Steinbrenner out of the picture, the Yankees were run by a veteran and capable baseball group. That was the group that scouted, signed and/or didn't trade away personnel that were key to the Yankees success. Or they did a great job in pirating talent away from other teams via trades (e.g., Jeff Nelson and Tino Martinez for Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock).

That group augmented their skills with Yankee money to move into complete dominance and leave the rest of the AL gasping to keep up. That formula fell apart when Steinbrenner once again decided he had to dominate the decision-making and began overriding the recommendations of his baseball people.